Optimized Ecommerce EP 059 – 4X Lift in Conversion Using Wizards
This week on The Optimized Ecommerce Podcast, our repeat guest—Mariana Dourado joins Tanner Larsson to talk about how they were able to increase one of the store’s conversions into 5% more using wizards. Listen to this week’s episode as Mariana discusses how you can make use of wizards in your ecom stores to increase
Welcome to Episode #059 of Optimized Ecommerce – 4X Lift in Conversion Using Wizards. I’m your host, Tanner Larsson, CEO of BGS.
BGS means Build Grow Scale! It is a community that we founded where eCommerce entrepreneurs and physical product sellers come to learn how to take their businesses to the next level.
Mariana Dourado is a BGS Revenue Optimization Expert. She has been working with BGS for over two years—doing audits, analysing websites, and finding what works better for client sites.
She works with some of our amplified clients, helps our Ecom Insider members optimize their stores, and really dial them in.
Here’s just a taste of what we talked about today:
Mariana discussed what wizards are for and when to use them.
Wizards are used when a store offers a wide range of products. It lets users face the Paradox of Choice—an event where customers get paralysed when there are too many options and they do not know where to go.
Now, wizards are used when the product is relatively new or when users are not familiar with the features of your product. Another use for wizards is when a store offers similar products with similar features.
Making use of wizards helps ask the right questions and isolate which product is better for the buyers.
And then, Mariana talked about important things to keep in mind when setting up a wizard.
The first thing you need to do is go through every single step to make sure that everything is working properly and accurately. Check if there are any broken pages or broken steps because it can ruin the entire process.
Here is an example from one of the stores we handled. The client already had a survey set up which we turned into a wizard. We created a pop-up, tweaked some copy, and made some updates but used a similar structure as their survey. Creating the wizard took us a few weeks to make sure that everything was accurate for the store’s audience.
We also discussed a few other fun topics, including:
- Is the wizard presented as one long list of questions, or one question at a time?
- How to motivate visitors to use your wizard in the store?
- What are the vital elements that make a wizard work well in your store?
All that, and more! But you’ll have to watch or listen to the episode to hear about those!
How To Stay Connected With Mariana Dourado
Want to stay connected with Mariana? Please check out her social profiles below.
- Website: BuildGrowScale.com
- LinkedIn: Linkedin.com/in/mariana-dourado-a4396897
- Facebook Handle: Facebook.com/mariana.dourado.5
Also, Mariana mentioned the following items on the show. You can find that on:
Tanner Larsson 0:07
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Optimized Ecommerce Podcast. I’m Tanner Larsson. And today we are joined by repeat guests, Mariana Dourado. She is a BGS revenue optimization expert she’s been on the show before, obviously, that’s why she’s a repeat guest. And she works with some of our amplified clients, as well as helping our Ecom Insider members optimize their stores and really dial them in. Today, we’re gonna be talking about something kind of interesting, and that is wizards. Okay, not wizards like Harry Potter wizards, but wizards as in the way that you can use a bit of technology to ask people questions that then give them an answer in terms of what the product is that they should go. So you can use sizing wizards that will help people find the right size of a product, there are wizards that can help them narrow down categories and different things like that. And in this case, Mariana is gonna take you through what they are, how they work, and how in this specific case, we were able to really, really boost conversions by almost four times the conversion rate, like for x, increasing conversion rate by using a wizard. And this is really interesting, because of the way the wizard is used, and the type of products that are being sold, most people would never connect the dots, that wizard could be beneficial there. But it’s been very, very profitable for them. And we’re going to share that with you today. So Mariana, thanks for joining us.
Mariana Dourado 1:28
Hey, happy to be here. Hey, everyone. So yeah, we’re gonna talk about wizards. And just to give you a client overview, they sell therapeutic jewelry to treat ailments. So the store already has an overall conversion rate pretty high. But we saw that when people interact with the wizard, these people convert at three to 5% more than the overall conversion. So it’s insane because it’s really helping. So it can be a very good strategy, depending on your business as well.
Tanner Larsson 2:08
Absolutely. So guys a what she’s talking about there, which is why this is so interesting is now you don’t want to force a wizard on your people if it doesn’t make sense. But in some cases, even in situations where you wouldn’t think it is like therapeutic jewelry. Well, like if I’m buying necklaces, or bracelets or something, do I need a wizard to know what the breaks that are necklaces. In this case, it wasn’t about the product. It’s about what the product did, where the wizard came into play and allowed people to figure out what they needed faster. So that’s what we’re going to go ahead and get in here. So why don’t we start with this Mariana, before we get into the actual product, case, study, and everything, given the overview. Let’s talk about what wizards are for and when to use them.
Mariana Dourado 2:52
Okay, so whenever you offer a big number of products that can make the process confusing, and make users face what we called Paradox of Choice when you’re paralyzed because there are a lot of options and don’t know where to go. Also, when the product is new, or relatively new, that’s also a good call. Or when the features are still unknown when users are not familiar with the features yet. And also, when you offer similar products with similar features, even if they’re not that many, this can be a good choice as well.
Tanner Larsson 3:28
So in that case, could be like you have a standard version and a pro version, but they’re basically the same product. Those were just a few differences. So people aren’t sure what to choose and the wizard to help ask questions and isolate which product is better for them?
Mariana Dourado 3:43
Tanner Larsson 3:46
Okay, what should I have in mind when I set up a wizard? Obviously, there’s a lot that can be done. And there’s a lot of ways to do it wrong. So what are some things to keep in mind when you’re doing this?
Mariana Dourado 3:58
So the first thing is you got to go through every single step, make sure everything is working properly. Check if there are not any broken pages or broken steps because this can ruin the entire research. So in this case, we actually got a survey the client already had and turned it into a wizard so they had a lot of URLs to come to the result. We turned it into a pop-up and we tweaked some copy and made some other updates but use a similar structure as the survey. So you want to make sure everything’s accurate. We spent a few weeks doing this wizard. I was even dreaming about it because I tried it like 20 times a day 30 times a day I and the devs just wanted to make sure everything was accurate. So, also, you got to make sure that you’re present the information in a clear way. Because you can throw a bunch of new info to your users if it doesn’t make sense to them. Or if it’s not clear, you’re not helping, you’re just hurting them. So make sure it makes sense to your audience, and that there are no broken steps, and that every result you get from the wizard is accurate.
Tanner Larsson 5:29
Now, you mentioned that this is a great example. Like people survey their list, they have questions that they already asked them to help them get information. But in her case, it was a multi-step or multi-question survey. So when you took that to the wizard, is the wizard just a long series of questions, or is it one question at a time that’s conditional based on what they answered?
Mariana Dourado 5:52
Yeah, it’s one question at a time. So before it was for each question, there was a different URL. And then you have, like, the several steps. So you don’t answer everything at once to just go through each step. And you say yes or no. And then you choose the most accurate option there. So it’s conditional. It’s like, a whole thing.
Tanner Larsson 6:19
Okay. So can you give them a kind of an idea, like an example of how they would walk through the wizard? Like what was it asking, so they can understand how it starts to help self select.
Mariana Dourado 6:33
So first, the age, and then after the age, you have the symptoms, so we can figure out. It’s important to understand that each stone will treat a different ailment. But people don’t know that. So it would be pointless to say, oh, we have this x stone, and people be like, okay, doesn’t matter. It’s not important for me. So we focus on the symptoms, so you say, oh, does the person you or whoever you’re buying this for have this symptom? Yes or no? And then another symptom, yes or no? And then, after all of these questions, you get the most accurate collection page.
Tanner Larsson 7:20
Gotcha. And so in this case by age, it would sort, because they have stuff for babies and infants as well. And so that would be the first branch off. So you had your broadest category here by age, and then it goes down into specific symptoms. And, guys, if you think of what she’s talking about, again, we talked about at the beginning, but that’s therapeutic gemstones, that have quasi healing properties or whatever. So if you have headaches, then there’s a specific gemstone that would be best for someone to wear if they have headaches. If the baby has a teething thing then there’s stuff for that, and there are different products, and certain kinds of things overlap. But the reason that the wizard works, if you think about it, people come to the site, they see all this jewelry, all these different therapeutic jewelry, and it all kind of blends together and looks the same. Unless you’re truly an expert at this, then you don’t know. So otherwise, you have to dig through every product and go oh, no, that’s not right. Oh, no, that’s not right. Oh, no, that’s not right, to figure out which one’s right for you. Whereas the wizard, lets them jump to the front of the line. Like hey, this is me, this is me, this is me, this is me cool. Here are the four products that relate to me, or here are the two products that relate to me and I can make my decision very, very fast. So that’s where the wizard in this case really, really becomes strong. But it’s one of those things that your average jewelry store or anyone’s out, would never think that a wizard can be of benefit to them. Because they’re like, well, they can just look at it. But in this case, they figured out a different issue. It wasn’t that they couldn’t look at the product that was that they didn’t know the features of the product, or what the benefit of each of the products were. And rather than trying to shout all the benefits of each product to people at all times. They’re saying, hey, let’s find out exactly what they need, and then present the benefits of the correct product to them at the right time. So you’re entering that customer conversation and the customer’s head. And really helping them get to where they want the wizard is beneficial to them not to you as the store owner. Right? That’s a big thing. There’s a lot of crappy wizards out there that don’t really actually help. But they look committed, they don’t they don’t actually help make sales.
Mariana Dourado 9:44
Yeah, if it’s not going to help, just don’t have it. It’s better. It’s easier for you and it’s better for the customers as well.
Tanner Larsson 9:50
Yeah. So once you have the wizard, one of the big things is how do you get people to actually use it?
Mariana Dourado 9:58
So whenever you want to see something you got to make it prominent, right? So in this case, it’s the same logic. So for example, if you’re having this behind the link, you got to make sure the link is visible, underlining it, make it bold, just like the other links on your website to keep it consistent. And also, another idea is to incorporate the first step already to the homepage. So for example, in this case, it’s age, instead of having it behind the link, you can make it part of the page. And the reason to offer that on the homepage is because typically, it’s the page where people are building their strategy to navigate that website, right. So if you only provide the wizard on other pages, let’s say, on product pages, when they have already chosen something, it’s likely that they won’t drop the current strategy to use the wizard and then go through it. So it’s going to be pointless. So yeah, the main thing would be to make it visible, make it prominent, and you can try adding the first step incorporated to the homepage.
Tanner Larsson 11:13
And yeah, that’s actually a really good point. We have a bunch of our clients that use wizards, we actually have one of our ecom insider members, who’s we’ve been suggesting a wizard to her because she sells a type of fencing product. That’s very like there are different attachments for different types of fences. And if there’s a lot of different pieces that people really struggle with, man, what parts do I need, so we’re saying, hey, when they want to look at your products before they even get into the product categories, and all that stuff, hit them with a wizard, now you can have a link below or they can skip the wizard if they want. But give them a wizard, where it’s like what type of fence do you have? And then if they select what type of fence they have. And then it can show them the category that makes the most sense for them. And you can visually do this. But the idea is making that the first step where there’s no way to get to the product, potentially, it depends on what you’re selling, but it becomes the first step in anybody’s shopping habits. We’ve also had some of our clients that when they use their wizards, they actually make the wizard the landing page of the ad. So the ad calls out something like in this case, find the right gemstone that will help you with your symptoms or whatever, you got to be careful about language because you can’t say healing and whatnot, and when they land on that page. And they’re on a wizard that will help them self-select, and you have some copy on there to help dial them in. So you can actually send your ad straight to a wizard if it makes sense for your product. So some products lend themselves to this much better like this fencing one, it would make sense to not let people see the other stuff because it confuses them, until they actually identify what type of fence they have and what they need. And in this case, if people are interested in the healing properties of gemstones, the wizard could be made into a kind of fun thing to help them find out more about the type of gemstones that would help their body. And so you can actually run ads directly to them as well. So yeah, prominent is a huge thing. And then I like to big part about making sure that if they’re on the product page, there should be multiple places where the wizard can be located, right? Look at multiple ways where it can be triggered. We have a client that sells pet products, and one of the things they sell is a harness. And there are different sizes of the harness. And they have sizing guide images, all different types all over the page. But they also have the wizard in multiple locations on the page that helps them pick the right size for their pet. And every time they added another image or another wizard, the same wizard which is another place where it can be activated on the long-form page conversions went up.
Mariana Dourado 13:58
Sure. that’s super contextual. You can repeat it on several relevant pages. But that’s something you should test right to make sure you’re providing the right people on the right page
Tanner Larsson 14:16
Correct, absolutely. So back to this wizard that you guys did gave him basically a four X lift in conversion. Why did this wizard work so well?
Mariana Dourado 14:28
Because they offer an insane number of products and there are many collections with many products in it. So people were really confused about what to pick. So in this case, as the wizard is ailment oriented and we get the symptoms and ask them what would make sense or not. This really helps to make the confusion go away because it narrows down the results. So in this case, we show collections as a result, because there are many products that treat the same thing. And then, once they’re on the collection page, they can filter the results by whatever they want, like color, or price, and other things that make sense to them.
Tanner Larsson 15:23
Got it. So you’re again, just helping them find what they’re looking for faster without the frustration. Now, how did you guys find out that this was a problem that people were confused that people weren’t finding what they were looking for? Where did that information come from?
Mariana Dourado 15:42
Typically the customer support. Also, we got a post-purchase survey on the store. And people were like, oh, I’m not sure if I got the right product, or oh, I hope this works for what a need, and things like that. So they only notice the confusion when people were choosing the products. And they were confused because it was, for example, the same gemstone but different, I know 20 to 50 different designs. So they were confused with what used to be for the same thing.
Tanner Larsson 16:22
Gotcha. So that’s an interesting idea and point there, though, because you guys were looking at it from a survey perspective of like, how do we help people find the right product, but based on what you’re saying about customer service, you’re probably also cutting down refunds, and returns and buyer remorse, because you’re boosting that confidence pre-purchase so that they know that what they’re getting is what they’re actually looking for.
Mariana Dourado 16:45
Yeah. So with this, they already had the survey previously. And then we kept seeing it on the post-purchase survey, that people were confused. So it was like, okay, people are not seeing it. So we saw the need of making it more prominent and trying different places and everything to make sure more people could access it and could find the things more easily.
Tanner Larsson 17:10
And the original survey was designed to do basically the same thing the wizard is much more of a user-friendly format than a conditional survey. And you guys can start with that you can start with a conditional Google Form survey or something like that, where you just build out the conditions and ask that, but the idea of the wizard is, it’s designed to be very user friendly, and intuitive, and not intimidating. Whereas a lot of times a survey is very intimidating. But when it’s designed is more of a wizard with radio buttons, where you check the box or you click the answer, and you don’t actually have to type or anything like that. It makes it a lot simpler, faster. And then obviously, people don’t get as intimidated by it. So, again, you were talking about using the collection, but is there a preference there versus using the wizard to send them to a collection or to a specific product?
Mariana Dourado 18:13
Not really that very contextual, because it depends on the number of products you offer, and depends on your business. So for example, if you sell computers, but only one of the computers is recommended for designers, you’re gonna show the product, not the collection because there are no other similar products that fit the same thing. So in this case, we chose collections because many items solve the same issue. So it makes sense. But in case, there’s only one option that treats that, that brings the result the person is looking for. So then you show the product itself, not the collection.
Tanner Larsson 18:56
So you can mix it up, right, based on whatever their responses, you can show either a collection or a product. Just depending on what their responses were to the survey or the wizard. And then the other piece, I want to just bring back to the forefront because you said it, but I want to make sure everybody who’s listening hears it. When you’re sending them to a collection page, the wizard does the initial narrowing down and recommendation to the category. But once they’re in the category, Mariana said that they still have the ability within that category to do further filtering based on price or type or whatever. So if it’s jewelry, you could still filter by necklace, bracelet, or ring or something like that, or by price or by reviews or whatever else. So just because you have a wizard does not negate the need for good filters on your category page because the wizard just takes the first step when they’re going into the category. And then maybe they want to sort by color. Maybe they only want to look at necklaces, and if you’re making them wade through all the other stuff, then you’ve basically defeated the purpose of using the wizard to get them to that stage.
Mariana Dourado 20:06
Yeah, that’s right. I mean, you could have a super specific wizard. But it might not make sense, for example, where you ask price and everything, but if you already have the filters on the collection pages, I don’t think it makes sense. Unless you’ve tested it already. And you saw it, it’s relevant for you. But yeah, just make sure you have the filters if you’re offering collections, so they can choose whatever it’s important for them and make their navigation easier.
Tanner Larsson 20:36
Now, in this case, obviously, the client has a store, they have a lot of products, a lot of skews, but you don’t have to have a lot of products to have a wizard be beneficial. Right.
Mariana Dourado 20:50
Right. So yeah go ahead.
Tanner Larsson 20:53
I was gonna say I was gonna ask you to kind of elaborate on that a little bit.
Mariana Dourado 20:57
Oh, yeah. So if you only offer a few products, let’s say the features are very similar, but they’re, as I said, about the regular product and the pro. I mean, the user won’t think Okay, I’m not gonna pay extra if I’m not sure if I need it. So then you can avoid the frustration of not getting what you actually needed, and then refunds as we spoke previously. So yeah, it makes sense, whatever, you notice a confusion on your customers and when they’re choosing something. So it depends if you’re not understanding the features. So in this case, the gemstones are not relevant, what’s relevant is that it’s what it treats. So that’s why we focused on that and not other elements. So whenever you notice that information is not clear to them, it’s probably worth trying a wizard to build something from that.
Tanner Larsson 22:06
It can also be used to highlight a product that’s not getting the attention that you want it to, because of those same reasons that Mariana is talking about. So again, we have a client that sells massage guns, the real popular massage guns, again, they have a normal version, and then they had the pro version, and they really wanted people to be buying the pro version. Profits better, everything’s better on that gun. But people were just naturally going to one because they look almost the same. There wasn’t enough distinction. And there was no way for them to really compare and contrast, besides we actually added a compare and contrasting chart, like show the differences. But the wizard actually made it even better, because people could answer like, Hey, are you an athlete? Are you this, are you that, and then it would offer the correct one. But typically, the feature set that they wanted was in the pro version, they just didn’t know that. So the pro version was recommended more often. And the other sneaky thing that they did was if the regular version was offered, and it was added to the cart, they had a one time offer that would show up that would allow people to upgrade to the pro version for a discounted rate, and still try to push those regular buyers into the pro version. So there are lots of different ways that can be leveraged and utilized. It just depends on what your products are, what you’re selling, and what your customers need. Again, sizing guides. That’s another one where wizards are very common, but they work really well. But people think that Oh, well. I have a sizing chart. I don’t need a wizard. Well, a lot of times, people have a tougher time reading the sizing chart and understanding it than they do answering a few questions. Plus, it could be the same information. It’s how it’s presented, though. People feel more confident in their decision when they’re being asked questions that are eliminating choices for them and then say Hey, your medium, like Oh, good that fits me. That’s personal, like almost having to tailor measure you and go this is your perfect size. Right. And so it’s a perception as well of just making the customer feel more confident in what they’re doing because they feel like it’s a personalized experience. Versus a more generic experience, right?
Mariana Dourado 24:31
Yeah, that’s true.
Tanner Larsson 24:33
Awesome. Well, guys, we covered a lot with Mariana today, I want you guys to go out and attempt a wizard. There are apps that can do it. You can custom code it there are ways to do that. But if your product lends itself well to a wizard, or you think it would figure out a way that you can structure your wizard in multi-step very simple, like one question at a time, and each question opens up the next step, and then it just kind of takes them on the journey. give that a shot, see how it works, test it, let us know what you come up with, and if you have trouble with it, or whatever, jump in our groups and stuff and start talking in the show and we can offer some advice there. But the thing you need to do right now is to make sure you are subscribed to this podcast. Got to Build Grow Scale.com forward slash podcast, you can get all the links to Spotify, YouTube, everything, it’s a video podcast. So sometimes we’re sharing things on the screen that you’re gonna want to see. So I would recommend you be subscribed to whatever your favorite audio podcast platform is. And then also on the YouTube channel, so that you don’t miss anything. And then also if you want the show notes, you can go to Build Grow Scale.com forward slash podcast and get those as well. And the final thing guys, leave us a review, leave us a comment on whatever platform you’re on. Let us know what you think. Let us know any ideas you have for future episodes. And we will get those created because this again, this podcast is for you. So thank you for your time and we’ll see it in the next episode.
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Want us to do an Audit on your e-commerce store and show you how you can make some quick changes that will dramatically increase sales and profits without increasing your traffic?