Optimized Ecommerce EP 027 – Kevin Urrutia’s SEO Secret to 60,000 Ecom Visitors a Month
This week on The Optimized Ecommerce Podcast, we feature the co-founder and CEO of VoyMedia.com — serial entrepreneur Kevin Urrutia. Kevin has been in the Ecommerce space for quite a while now. He has built three different brands and one of which will be the focus of this week’s episode. If you have
Welcome to Episode #027 of Optimized Ecommerce — Kevin Urrutia’s SEO Secret to 60,000 Ecom Visitors a Month. I am your host, Tanner Larsson, CEO of BGS.
BGS means Build Grow Scale! It is a community that we founded where eCommerce entrepreneurs and physical product sellers come to learn how to take their businesses to the next level.
Today, Tanner talks with Kevin Urrutia, co-founder and CEO of VoyMedia.com. In this special episode, they talk about How an ecommerce business can generate massive levels of organic traffic despite the fact that Ecom stores and organic traffic very seldom go together.
Here’s just a taste of what we talked about today:
First, we talk about Kevin’s background in Computer Science and his journey to becoming a serial entrepreneur.
Kevin Urrutia was into Computer Science for a long time, having gone to college in upstate New York in Binghamton for CS. He dedicated more of his time and effort in that space when he moved to San Francisco, California — the tech mecca.
During this time, he was very interested in startups and building several small projects. One thing bugged him though as he was building all of these projects. He never knew quite how to get traction or traffic.
“I think that was always like a mystery to me at that time. I was so into programming. And programming in the tech space at that time was like, ‘Hey, if you build it, they will come.’ LIke, ‘Is it a great product?’ No. But people just find you, right? And that’s what I believed in. When you have read it so much, you kind of instill that belief even though it’s obviously not true,” reveals Kevin.
A lot of people do paid traffic and Shopify is great for that. But for Kevin, he has always been SEO focused on his Ecommerce companies. He always begins with WordPress.
“And yes, there’s good and bad about WordPress. But for me, I wanted SEO to be a big part of the business, not just paid traffic,” Kevin adds.
So he built his sites with WordPress and WooCommerce so he can really control the URLs in SEO. To KEvin, the URL is critical for any sort of organic traffic control.
Next, we talk about categories, subcategories, keywords and how to find out exactly what types of pages Google likes to rank high.
Kevin always tells people to Google their keyword.
“Say for example, ‘Carry On Luggage’. See what the top 10 are ranking. And then, just take notes. Do they have an h1? How many images do they feature? How many paragraphs do they write?” says Kevin.
Taking notes of these things and seeing what the commonalities are in the top 10 is Kevin’s number 1 advice. This is how he sees what Google likes to rank.
If Google is ranking a page number one, he advises his clients to do the same thing, “I always tell people that they don’t have to reinvent the wheel. It’s just the same thing!”
And then, we examine just how beneficial external links are for you SEO.
If an external blog is just basically spamming links, then those don’t work anymore. Google has grown a lot smarter than that.
Kevin says, “When you think about SEO, you want to be actually doing true outreach. Go out to the blogger and say, ‘I would love for you to write a review about Chester Travels. I would love to maybe do a sponsored post.”
There are so many ways to reach out to bloggers and there are a lot of angles for your business that you can use. You just have to be really creative about how you want to pitch your product.
We also discussed a few other fun topics, including:
- Leverage help from a VA to perform the manual tasks for you.
- How to search for a keyword using the Google Keyword Planner Tool, judge your list of keywords, and eliminate the ones that no longer fit.
- We talk about Chester Travels — one of Kevin’s brands — and how he ramped up his monthly visitors from 0 to 60k! How many pages did Kevin and his team create to reach their milestone?
- Kevin shares some advice on branding and product naming.
- We dice out what makes a Wikipedia-like page super effective!
- Kevin has more advice for people who have no SEO in their websites and are simply at a loss on where to start.
- Find out some of Kevin’s biggest takeaways from building Chester Travels — an online luggage company.
All that and more! But you’ll have to watch or listen to the episode to hear about those!
How To Stay Connected with Kevin Urrutia
Want to stay connected with Kevin? Please check out his social profiles below.
Also, check out the following tools that Kevin and Tanner mentioned on the show:
Tanner Larsson 0:07
Hey, everybody, welcome back to The Optimized Ecommerce Podcast. I’m Tanner Larsson, your host for this series. And I’m joined by a very special guest. This is actually really cool. He’s one of the first external guests we have on the show. As you guys know, we normally do a podcast with one of the 60 different team members who work with Build Grow Scale Optimization stuff. So Kevin is actually quite unique. And it’s Kevin, Uruttia. Is that right?
Kevin Urrutia 0:31
That’s it. Right.
Tanner Larsson 0:32
Yes. Awesome. I’ve been practicing that for about three seconds now. So we’re doing good. But anyway, Kevin has done a lot of stuff. He owns Voy Media, and he’s been in the Ecommerce space for a while. He’s got three different brands. One of which I want to talk about today is Chester Travels. So we’re going to get into this. Now the cool thing about Chester Travels, well he basically made his life harder when he picked an Ecommerce product to sell. And we’ll talk about that in a second. He’s like, “Hey, how can I make my life as difficult as possible to be successful in the Ecommerce space?” and then he did it! So he did about 1.5 million in 12 months. And the really exciting thing is like, he also went from 0 to 60,000 uniques in organic traffic. Now, if you’ve been in the Ecommerce space for any length of time, you realize that Ecommerce stores and organic traffic very seldom go together. Most people are totally reliant on paid media. And that’s really why I wanted to have Kevin on here just to talk to us about how a store can actually do that and generate such a massive level of organic traffic. So Kevin, thank you so much for being on here. And why don’t we start with a little bit of background on you and kind of how you found your way into Ecom?
Kevin Urrutia 1:44
Yeah. Thanks for having me. So yeah, my name is Kevin Urrutia. And my background is in Computer Science. So I went to college in upstate New York in Binghamton for CS. So, I was doing Computer Science for about a long time. And then I went out to San Francisco, California. So I worked for Mint.com, and Zaarly. I was really into it — doing tech stuff. But during this whole time, I was really big into startups. Like, this was like 10 years ago. And moving to San Francisco, California. That was like the tech Mecca. And that’s where I wanted to go. And so throughout college, I liked doing stuff and building things. And I always liked building projects. I mean, I guess people call it ‘side startups’ or just like things. And even in college, I had my own web development agency. And I was like, actually doing like iPhone apps and web apps and all this crazy stuff. Yeah. And it’s interesting, because at this time, I was like, kind of like — from my website, you can see what I was doing. It is going to Craigslist, it was really big. I was just like, emailing people to be like, “Hey, I’m a computer programmer in college. I can probably charge cheaper than maybe other government agencies.” I just wrote a script in Ruby, that would just scrape Craigslist, and then just like, automatically do it. It’s so crazy. Because like, at the time, I was like, I don’t even know this, like cold emailing. I was like — and it’s still from my own personal Gmail. And I was just like, “Oh, that’s like…” thinking about it now I’m just like, “I probably shouldn’t have done that. Because it’s not the best way.” But out in California, I was doing, just like I said, building things. I like competing in hackathons. I’m not sure people have done this. For programmers, it’s like, basically for 48 hours you kind of just program something like a random idea. So I’ve always liked building things. And we won one. And really, one of the things when I was building all these projects, I never knew how to get traction. Or just how do you get traffic? I think that was always like a mystery to me at that time. Because I was so big into programming. Programming in the tech space at that time was “never heard about it.” Like, “Hey, if you build it, they will come.” LIke, is it a great product? No. But people just find you, right? And that’s kind of like what I believed in. Because that’s like, it’s like anything. When you read it so much, you kind of instill that belief that you like. Yeah, this is it? And obviously not true, right?
Tanner Larsson 3:56
Not true. Not true.
me in at this point.
Kevin Urrutia 7:34
This was about two years ago, two, three years ago for Chester. So a lot of people sell computers for 10. A lot of people do paid traffic and Shopify is great for that. But I think if you’re really, at least for me, I have always been SEO focused on these e commerce companies. I always started WordPress. And yes, there’s good and bad about WordPress. But I think like if, for me, I wanted SEO, SEO to be a big part of the business not just paid. So I built my sites with WordPress and WooCommerce. And the reason why I did that is because you can really control the URLs in SEO, or any sort of organic traffic controlling the URLs is super important. With Shopify, you can do some, but they insert their own, like slash shop slash products, stuff that you can’t really customize. And if you’re not, if you’re not doing pay, you’re not doing organic, that’s perfectly fine. But for me, I’m like, Oh, I don’t, I thought I was like, I was like, Oh, this is ugly. Like, this is just like, Oh, this is so ugly, I gotta want that URL in there. And I have that URL slug in the top is so important for the traffic. So I think if you really want to think about SEO, I think WooCommerce is a great platform. Of course, that’s WordPress. So they all own that sort of thing. I think it’s all free too. So it’s so that’s another benefit of it if you’re looking at that, but Shopify is great up. And then really for at this time, I was learning more about like keyword research, I think the most important thing you need to do for organic traffic is when you’re thinking about this is keyword research are most people when they have a product or they come up with something they kind of like think about the name, I mostly go to Google and go to Keyword Planner. It’s a Google Keyword Planner, it’s a free tool. And you can type in your product like travel, carry on luggage, and you can see things like the search volume. And then for us, when we see that we will then make a page called like Chester travels calm for slash carry on luggage, because that’s like, and then we’ll rank that sub page. I think one of the biggest mistakes that I made in the beginning, was trying to rank the homepage. But the homepage is more like a general page. I tell people just kind of like exploring your brand. Think about it. But then when you’re trying to rank pages, rank your sub pages, because if you have your if you’re the keyword in that URL, somebody will click slug to you can really now drive links or traffic to that sub page. And then that will rank up and also if you but also it also really depends on what the niche or specific sector is ranking. So I always tell people, Google for something like let’s say for example, carry on luggage and see what the top 10 are ranking. And then just take notes, okay, they have like an h1, oh, they have an image here, oh, this page has three images, all these pages, four paragraphs, take notes of that and see what the commonalities are in the top 10. Because you’re seeing what Google likes to rank. A lot of times it’s, it’s like anything, it’s like, just make it exact. Yeah, just make it simple. If Google’s ranking, that’s number one, okay, just make your pages the same thing. Like I just tell people like don’t even try to reinvent the wheel, it’s just the same thing..
Tanner Larsson 13:59
It’s a category for a new keyword. Yep, exactly. That’s what I was gonna ask next.
Kevin Urrutia 14:05
And the reason why I like that is because once you start building links to the category, you can, you can then pass in your link juice to your subcategories, which is like your carbon fiber and vice versa, when you start linking to the carbon fiber, you will then pass link to your main parent parent category page as well. And so for us, it’s like we have trekking poles slash carbon fiber trekking poles, forward slash folding poles, which is another one trekking pole, it’s four slash aluminum. So you can see how like now you’re sort of making this sort of like mapping of the keywords and the products in your, in your in your site.
Tanner Larsson 14:40
Now when you talk when we go back to keywords, like obviously, you know, carry on luggage, hard sided luggage, all those different ones. Now guys, we’re talking about luggage because Chester travels when I was joking about him making it hard on himself. It’s a luggage company, they sell hard sided travel luggage from a carry on size up to a big you know, check Bag size three basic, late sizes, which if you guys know he calm, right, he’s got big shipping is big volume, size, everything just becomes more complicated. And so anyway, that’s what we’re talking about here. So with Chester travels, though, when you guys do your keywords like obviously some of the Keyword Planner Tool, those are going to spit out things like carry on luggage for sale? Do you build a page that says carry on luggage for sale? Or do you go into those, like, longer tail more? Yeah, cuz there’s a thought process to that, like people think, well, that’s a buyer’s keyword versus Yeah, informational keywords. So what do you think? What are your thoughts on that?
Kevin Urrutia 15:39
So for those, if it’s a buyer’s keyword where you know there’s people who want to buy, I tell you, well, you should make one. And so you should do like, carry on load for sale, make one about it. But really, I would say, like, make that for a little bit. And then once you start getting traffic, go a little deeper, such as “best carry on luggage”, and then come back to that old page that you were ranking, and then just do a redirect back to your parent page, which is the one that you want to do. Because by then you want to build up like your SEO, just kind of what you said before, it’s like, you can’t be Amazon, like now, like, you’re just like Amazon like 20 years ago, like, they don’t have enough. They don’t have any juice. Yeah. So it’s like, okay, start off with the ones that you could rank for, build them up, get some traffic, and then make Okay, this is working. Now let’s take a best carry on page. And then let’s redirect the old one to this new one. That way, we can get the new one ranking now. And when it
Yeah, you do like a 301 redirect.
Yeah. So basically, like, Can we say for like, the best of keywords, those are always the best ones you should rank for, even for, even for people like Chester. People like, “Oh, why are you ranking for best carry on luggage?” Of course, you can put your own like, Yeah, of course. Why would I? Why wouldn’t I put my own like, I don’t leave anything to chance. I was like, it’s my company. I want to make sure people know, like, we think we’re the best. Because I believe in my product. I believe my company. So I think it’s very great to sort of control the space and narrative and SEO, especially going back to before, it’s like, if you can control the top 10 Why wouldn’t you? Why would you leave up to chance of a random blogger saying that you’re not good?
Tanner Larsson 18:03
Yeah, totally. Yeah. So on that point, how we’re talking specifically, I want to keep going into page, but we’re talking a lot about on page stuff. But if you have, Google is not going to give 10 spots to the same URL, right? Or even the same root domain, they’re gonna, they’re gonna mix it up a little bit. So how big is off site or ancillary SEO in your repertoire? How is that a big, big thing?
Kevin Urrutia 18:29
Yeah, I think even though on page and getting your SEO right, and the URLs, right, I still think the off page is probably the most important part of it. And that is getting links from other bloggers and getting links from other bloggers that you can get that from a different way. It’s either through referral traffic as in like, hey, if you write a link to me, I’ll give you a commission for every sale you make. That’s another link. That’s a great way to get links, because it’s like a two for one deal. they’ll write a review about you. And also, you’ll get linked to your website.
Tanner Larsson 18:59
Does the affiliate link actually pass link juice back to you even though it’s got its own? You know, funny?
Kevin Urrutia 19:06
Yeah, so what you could do is, if Usually, it’s like for us, it’s like Chester travel.com forward slash raft, right? And then you have something random. So when you do that, you can just let it go directly to the referral. But then what you want to do is go into your back end, just like a file called like ht access, which is like the thing you can then say, hey, if you detect Google Bot redirected to the homepage that way you can strip out that slash Rex got it more technical but like you can do that especially if you have a lot of…
Tanner Larsson 19:37
Editing the ht access is not that hard to open it in Notepad Adeline and it’s fairly straightforward. I mean, don’t don’t hack at it. If you watch a couple YouTube videos at the very least before you start hacking at it, but it’s not a it’s not that hard to edit.
Kevin Urrutia 19:51
Yeah, so that’s how you should do it and don’t have to because he said you want to preserve every link juice you can like, always be looking at your webmaster tools. The most basic thing that you can install is Webmaster Tools. And Google will tell you what’s wrong with your site and then just fix it. Because Google is really telling you those insights there.
Tanner Larsson 20:09
Absolutely. So, with those external links, obviously getting links from Blogger and things like that. Now, what we see a lot of — and I actually don’t know the true answer to this. We don’t like it, but people do it. And that is using things like, Blogger and all these different free link things. And my perspective on it is whether it gives you link juice or not, it devalues the brand. And it’s not worth it. I don’t want that image hit taken. So we recommend not doing it. But is that actually beneficial to your SEO?
Kevin Urrutia 20:41
For any of those free sites like Blogger or like those free WordPress sites,
Tanner Larsson 20:46
Where they’re just basically spamming links, right?
Kevin Urrutia 20:48
Yeah. Those don’t work anymore. It used to work definitely 10 years ago, that was great. But now it doesn’t work. I think Google’s got a lot smarter than that. Really, when you want to think about SEO, it’s like, you want to be actually doing true outreach, right? Kind of like going out to the blogger and saying, “Hey, look, my name is Kevin. I have Chester Travels. I would love for you to write a review about me. I would love to maybe do a sponsored post. And there are so many ways you could do that. Let’s say, obviously, there are so many travel bloggers. So there’s a lot of angles for Chester that we use such as traveling to this country or traveling to this. The best carry on luggage. There are so many, but even for any space, you can really be creative about how you want to pitch your product and anything like that. It’s just, again, you can also go back to the sort of Keyword Planner Tools and see like, “Hey, what are other keywords in the travel space?” And then, reach out to those bloggers and go from there. Once you’re thinking about this, it sounds like a lot. But really what you want to do is think about a process. And honestly, the best way that you could do it is use a tool like — I’m not sure if you guys heard of ahrefs.com. Well you could do is go to a competitor’s website that you know is ranking well. And then just look at where they’re getting links from. And then just have your virtual assistant contact everybody on that list and say, “Hey, we know that you wrote about Chester Travels, can you write about us? It’s like “Okay, cool.” And the thing about it, too, is like the insight here — they should be thinking — they’re already open to guest posting. So it’s a lesser sell. It’s not like you’re educating them on why you need this.
Tanner Larsson 22:17
Yeah. And guys, I want to touch on this for a second in a little bit of a different way. But he’s talking about a very manual process. And he did talk about a VA but I want to imply just how easy that really is. And I mean, you’re talking about $4 to $5 an hour Filipino VA or maybe an $8 an hour highly paid one. You know, this kind of repetitive systemized task. All you do is you go through it once. You map out exactly how you want to do it. You give them a template for emails where they can replace the stuff that you want. And they just do it by the droves — by the hundreds. We did this back in the early days — back in like 2002 when we were looking for affiliates. We would basically — I had two VAs whose job all day long was just to Google Search every possible combination of words they could. Find sites, send them an email asking them if they basically want to be an affiliate for XYZ product, and we would pay him a commission. It had a very low success rate. But we found some of our best super affiliates by doing that. But ultimately, I’d spend 300 to 400 bucks a month on these VAs doing this. And I would get you know, it’s probably a 1 in 20 successful affiliate that came through from that. Those were affiliates I wouldn’t have had before. And once I set them up in doing it, it was completely hands-free. And it’s the same thing that Kevin’s talking about here. You’re asking for links, asking for guest posts. You can basically — and then you have a variation on it. If they run out of things to ask for guest posts on… “Okay, go over here and try to buy a link. Try to do this.” There’s just a multi-step process you can easily set up.
Kevin Urrutia 23:51
Right, exactly. It’s like I tell people all the time. It sounds like a lot of manual work, but just record yourself doing it once and say, “Watch this video.” and then you’ll never have to do it again. And exactly what you said, I think what you said there is so important. It’s like, you can ask for a guest post. Sometimes they’ll say no. “Okay, well, what’s another way we can work together?” And use that contact to say like, “Okay, can I buy a link? Or can we do a swap? Or can I do a banner ad?” There are so many — just be creative about it. And even if you’re doing paid traffic, and a lot of people do Facebook ads here. Sometimes what we’ve done too is like, “Hey, like, what about… Can I place my pixel on your blog? Because I see you have a lot of organic traffic yourself. And then you can use that yourself as retargeting to your stuff.” So that’s another way to do it. Like, once you have industry contacts, you can then use it. For example, we did a lot of guest posting with Montem. So all the people that we successfully guest posted on we said, “Hey, we actually started a second brand.” Then “Okay, cool. Yeah, I like your stuff.” So I think people need to think about it like a database of contacts. It’s just like when people you know. Once you’ve done it and once it’s successful. The second time is so much easier because they know that you’ve actually delivered that first time.
Tanner Larsson 25:02
Absolutely. A super strong thing to do. Very manual, but again, have a VA do it, and it’s worth its weight. So let’s jump back into keyword specific. I think people screw up keywords a lot. Because they think just because the Google Keyword Tool returns these as possible searches, then I need to focus on all of these. So talk a little bit about how you do a keyword search on the Planner Tool or whatever. How do you kind of judge and eliminate and, you know, triage that list?
Kevin Urrutia 25:33
Yeah. So for us, when we were first starting SEO, we kind of like to go and think about the problems that people are searching for online. At least for Chester, a lot of the keywords that we started to rank for were like, ‘How to…’ How early should I arrive at the airport? A very common question that people ask. So, when we are sort of filtering through Google, we just filtered through like “how, what, when, if…” those, I think, are very much easier to rank for. They’re also helping people solve a problem, and then you can retarget them or use other stuff. But for us, what we did, at least for Chester was one of the biggest things that we we ranked for is kind of like baggage fees. And when we do baggage fees, we saw that there were hundreds of variations for this. So for example, like Avianca Airlines baggage fees, Delta Airlines baggage fees. So all these pages now have their own blog post on our website. And this gets us so much traffic, because we know that they’re about to travel. And they’re looking for this pain point of traveling, which is a baggage fee. And that fits directly with our product saying, “Hey, look with the carry on. You don’t have to pay for baggage fee.” So that’s how it goes back to what we said before. Now you can insert your product.
Tanner Larsson 26:47
And do a soft pitch back to your carry on size luggage.
Kevin Urrutia 26:50
Yep, exactly. And then we say “Hey, if you want to pay for a carry. If you want to pay for a fee, we also have bigger ones that you can also use.” It’s like this pain point. We call it Pain Point SEO. Where it’s like, where does your product fit? And then, what we rank for. And for us, what we did was, at least when I’m doing SEO, I’ll do like three to four of these sort of keywords and kind of see what Google’s giving me. And if it’s like, “Oh, wow, it’s actually pretty good.” Then I’ll go and build a whole matrix of…
Tanner Larsson 27:19
What timeframe are do you consider when you’re like, judging whether or not you should build out more or whatever,
Kevin Urrutia 27:25
I usually give it like two months or so. And again, it really depends on how powerful your domain is. Right? If you just started out, you’re probably — it’s too little. So you just need to keep the first few months of SEO as you probably know, it’s like, you’re kind of just grinding it out. It’s like, “Oh my god, like, I don’t know if this thing works.” Like, you’re like praying every night. Like is it gonna work? Is it gonna work? Is it gonna work? And then eventually, something happens. You’re like, “Okay, cool. It’s working.” And then like, “Why don’t I build more blog posts?”
Tanner Larsson 27:53
“I wish I’ve been building more of those earlier.”
Kevin Urrutia 27:56
Yeah. So it’s always one of those things where once it works, it works. And that’s why SEO, I think, is so tough sometimes, because you’re just spending money. Like, yeah, I said like, yes you can do all this outreach guest posting. That does cost money. So I understand where people are skeptical about it. But I think it’s like, I mean I do paid traffic in my agency. I say SEO still is the best thing that you could be doing. Because it’s like, once it works, it works. And I tell people like it’s going to take a year or two. But keep at it. Yes.
Tanner Larsson 28:25
And it’s honestly that one of the best additions you can add to a paid traffic strategy because it helps level out the hiccups that happen across — you know, the paid media. And once it’s there, it’s just such a nice padding to your bottom line. Because there is an acquisition cost. But it’s fairly difficult to calculate that. So you kind of look at your organic as a free sale, almost. Right? Because it has all sunk cost versus direct acquisition cost. So yeah. But for sure… I wanted to actually dig in or bring to the surface and dig in a little bit more on one point you made. So guys think about SEO. When you think about SEO for your products. Typically you’re like Samsung phone, Samsung phone for sale, blue Samsung phone, gold Samsung phone. If you listen to what Kevin said for his travel site, which sells luggage. The keywords he started talking about where baggage fees, and you know what time to arrive at the airport. This is a very wide SEO net, right? You think about it, he’s from a paid media targeting. He went from laser targeted direct response to very broad on almost no targeting, right? He’s really casting that wide net and letting people self select. So from SEO, that direct keyword stuff is good. But if you want to go from zero to 60k like they did really fast. You’re going to have to get creative and start casting a much wider net in the keywords you’re looking at and then get super creative like, “Hey baggage fees. Well I sell luggage.” Or I don’t, but Kevin sells luggage, right? Kevin sells luggage. Baggage fees are a perfect fit. And as he already mentioned it ties it in. How can you do that with your product? Because those keywords are going to be much easier to rank for I’m betting — and Kevin will correct me if I’m wrong, than ‘blue Samsung Galaxy’.
Kevin Urrutia 30:23
Yeah, definitely Yeah, like the best stuff keywords are gonna be very, very tough to rank for. And of course the best ones you want too and everybody wants to be number one. But as I said before I go for those ‘How to’s…’ ‘Whats…”, those are the questions. People are looking for those much more than what is the best X, Y, & Z. There’s only certain categories that best rank high. But yeah, like even for us, too. We have things like do’s and don’ts for flying in coach. How to use the airline bathroom stall. Like, ‘What is the Mile High Club?’ All this stuff, right? Like all these kinds of things in that space that kind of get people thinking about like, “Who is this brand?” Right? And you can be very creative. And it’s sometimes fun to write the content. I mean, we don’t write it, but you can try it yourself. Yeah.
Tanner Larsson 31:08
So with that, hang on, you’re talking about a ton of stuff. So specifically to just stick with Chester Travel. And during this 0 to 60K, ramp up — monthly visitor ramp up. How many pages are we talking about? How many did you guys create in that timeframe? Like, how many different pages do you have out there?
Kevin Urrutia 31:28
So, for us — for Chester … to get to there, we were mainly ranking with that baggage fee one. So once we saw that working. Two things here, it’s like we saw it working. And then we create about 30 to 40 different pages. And with that, one of the key things I think people need to do too, is like once you see this working, it’s just to interlink between those pages. One baggage fee page and another one and making sure that like the Google crawler can come back and find the other ones too. One of the mistakes that people make is like they’ll write a page, let’s say today, and then a month from now they have another page, they should go back to today and be like, Oh, let me link to the new page. So like I said, it’s like manual work. But again, you can have a VA or someone in your team be like, hey, whenever we make a new page, find one that we wrote a month ago and link it to this new one.
Tanner Larsson 32:17
That’s like deep linking.
Kevin Urrutia 32:19
Yes. Deep linking. Yep.
Tanner Larsson 32:20
Okay, cool. Yeah. And actually, with our blog, that’s one of the things that we realized we weren’t doing. And then we have all these — all of our content interrelates. And we knew how to do it. We just didn’t do it. But have you seen a big lift in the blog itself since we started going back and just updating all that deep linking? So I’m glad you said that was like 30 to 40 pages, because in my head, like the story I’m telling myself, I’m like, “Oh my god, they’ve got thousands of pages out there to generate this much traffic.” But that’s cool. So, again, let’s dive deep once you find something that works. And you know, interlink. Right?
Kevin Urrutia 32:57
Exactly. Interlink. And then it’s interesting, because people will be like, “Oh, Delta Airline baggage fees, or Southwest Airline…” you can make that to like one page. But I don’t think that’s as effective as making many pages. And one thing you’ll probably realize is like, “Oh, I can just make that one page…” because you want to save on content costs. So you can just easily add other ones. But for me, I’m like, “No.” I know it’s worth the extra $300 per page, because I know I’m going to rank more and get more traffic this way.
Tanner Larsson 33:29
Totally. And so on that… Like our whole preface is revenue optimization. That’s what Build Grow Scale does. But it all focuses on the buyer’s journey, and streamlining that buyer’s journey. And what’s the best for the customer. What’s the best for the visitor? Right? And what you’re talking about is what’s best for the visitor, even if you have one page of content with all that on there. And let’s just say the SEO juice was equal. It’s still not the best thing for the customer. Because if they want Zimbabwe Air, they have to go through all the other letters of the airline alphabet before they get to it. They don’t want to do that, they want to go right to it. So you break it out into individual pages, allowing it to rank when they click on it. It gives them exactly what they want. Versus making them look for the information, which is something people do in stores all the time. They can look and find it. That’s not their job to find it. It’s your job to make it easy for them to find it.
Kevin Urrutia 34:25
Yeah, just like making it a collection super simple. It’s like with SEO — one thing you’ll learn is a lot of Ecom people I talked to are like they want to name their product something random. Like, that’s not what people call it though. Just call it what people want to call it. Just like, oh my gosh. I see it all the time. Like, “I’ve no clue how people are ever gonna find you online because your name is made up.” I’m just like, for us, like our poles. I like Montem Trekking Poles because I want the keyword in there for SEO.
Tanner Larsson 34:54
Yeah. So it makes total sense, though. Yeah, because again, the user isn’t gonna — You’re users are not you. And we talked about this all the time, as we talked about the fact that as soon as you become like… You could be a mountain biker. But the second you decide to become a mountain biking vendor, or you’re selling something in the mountain biking space, you are no longer your target audience because you have a mental shift in your head that’s different from the pure passion play. Right? So that’s it, like, “I want to be creative, and it will be so cool.” But that’s not what the original old view mountain biker would have done. If that’s what the new messed up business you want to do. So yeah, it’s keeping it good for that. So back to what we’re talking about with these pages for a second. We talked a little bit about structure on a light point. But what I want to get to is — and what everybody really cares about is, “How do I make money off those pages?” So generating traffic to baggage fees… we talked a little bit about how you can do a soft link-back. But how do you do your promotion on these SEO pages? And how do you get them back to your product pages organically.
Kevin Urrutia 35:59
What we have is, we have a good table of contents on these pages, we also have a pop up where people can put in their email to get more people to their email. Email list is probably one of the biggest things that you could probably do too. Just because if you’re driving traffic, a lot of traffic is informational traffic. So at least get them on an email to say, “Hey, look, we can get like $10 off the next luggage.” But even better, sometimes we’ve tried this for other companies like giving an Ebook that works really well with the content. But for us, what we’re doing for Chester is like every third or fourth paragraph, we do have a CTA that says, “Are you interested in getting luggage? Here, shop now.” and then we take them to our category page of luggages.
Tanner Larsson 36:39
Now is that a visual CTA? Or is it more text based?
Kevin Urrutia 36:43
It’s a visual CTA. So it’s like a button that says “Shop Chester.” And then on top, we have a little text on top. So we have that about the four paragraphs from the top. And also we have one on the bottom as well.
Tanner Larsson 36:54
Are you demoing or showing on that button? Are there pictures of your carry on product or anything like that? Or is it just a button without product imagery?
Kevin Urrutia 37:02
Yeah, it’s just a button without product imagery. But like I said before, sometimes it might be better to also add like an image next to it with a button. But yeah, for us, we just have the button and depending on what WordPress theme you might have, or plugins that says every fourth paragraph “Add dynamic content”
Tanner Larsson 37:20
Kevin Urrutia 37:21
That makes it very easy to do.
Tanner Larsson 37:23
Yep. Now, do you obviously have that every fourth. Do you do any kind of, you know, straight text linking back to products?
Kevin Urrutia 37:31
Yeah, so we also do straight text like text linking as well. And that serves two purposes. That’s sort of like internal internal SEO. And then also just like kind of like — again, just show people the product. But another thing that we also do too, which I think is maybe more for like the paid guys is making sure that you put your pixel on these pages, and then we do retargeting on the blog post. So it’s kind of — it’s just big. That’s really one of the bigger things about it. Like you can retarget people, because they know they’re on this travel site. So they’re kind of thinking about this travel space. That helps with retargeting for Google ads, retargeting for Facebook ads. But also again, you can also use this traffic for lookalike audiences if you’re doing Facebook ads as well.
Tanner Larsson 38:09
Cool. Now, back to the content. We talked about every fourth paragraph or so you have the link calling them back, you’ve obviously got h1 tags. Is there like a rule of thumb like how many h1’s? How many h2’s? What’s the word count? Like, is there a basic structure that you like to follow?
Kevin Urrutia 38:28
Yeah, so h1. Always have only one h1. I think it’s probably the most important thing. Your h1 should also probably match your title tag, which is like the thing in the back end, and then h2. Just have one or two h2’s, and then an h3. And the reason why I like to do that is because you want to have a good… What I’m seeing now, which is working really well is calling a table of contents. So you see kind of like a little … kind of like Wikipedia, you know? Wikipedia has its table of contents. A lot of websites have that now, and I’m seeing that work really well for ranking on Google. So if you go for anything on the Chester site. You see that after the second paragraph, we have a little table of contents. And that’s just automatically generated with the structure that was before like an h1, h2, h3 and an h4. Usually you want to have like two to three h2’s, two to three h3’s, and then one h4. But it’s always like, depending on how you visually want to show it. So that’s how I think about it. But h1 should be kind of like the title of the blog post. So for example, it could be like, Avianca Airline baggage fees. h2 could be another question you want to answer kind of like a sub going back to the keyword research like that’s like the main one. And then like the h2’s and h3’s are like sub questions of that main keyword that you want to rank for as well. People call them like secondary keywords.
Tanner Larsson 39:46
Yep. So, okay. And then in terms of total length, what do you do there? Is there a rule of thumb there?
Kevin Urrutia 39:52
So for that, I use this program called Surfer SEO. and it’s like a… basically kind of what I said before where you want to look and get the top 10. They will do that for you automatically. It’s pretty expensive, but I think it’s worth it. So let’s say you’re putting in luggage fees. They’ll take the top 10 and tell you like, “Hey, Kevin, here’s how long your article should be. And here’s what your h2 and h3 should be.”
Tanner Larsson 40:14
So it’s more niche and topic / keyword specific. So it could be the same niche, but each keyword has a different length.
Kevin Urrutia 40:22
Tanner Larsson 40:22
Based on the top 10. Interesting.
Kevin Urrutia 40:24
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So that’s — this tool does that. And I think it’s probably the best tool. Like any SAS program. Just do it for like a month and like downloading everything. And then just save it and then like, go write down the articles. So use that as a way. Every keyword is a little different. So I always tell people like, just look at what the tools are telling you. Or, again, manually do it yourself.
Tanner Larsson 40:48
Very cool. All right. So we’ve covered a big push on this. I got two things I still want to talk to you about — Chester Travels a little bit and kind of what you’ve learned from that. But before we do that, a lot of the people who are listening to this are like, “Dude, this is awesome. I’ve learned a lot. But I have no SEO on my site whatsoever. Right now, I don’t even know where to start.” So someone like that. Talk to that a little bit. What would you tell that person? How could they kind of get their feet wet and get a plan going?
Kevin Urrutia 41:17
I think the number one thing you want to be doing is think about starting a blog. A blog is probably the first thing you’d be starting. Shopify, you can do a blog. WordPress, of course, is a blog. And then really, I would say learn about SEO. Some of the best blogs out there for SEO is probably like… what’s called? Backlinko by Brian Dean. He’s pretty good. I’ve seen that one. And then a SEO Moz. Rand Fishkin is pretty good. And then the best one out there is Ahrefs.com. They have a good blog, and they really show you that stuff. So I think like people need to truly understand what the blog can do for you, and sort of like the content for you. But then just Google stuff, obviously. It’s like anything, just Google things you want to rank for and see what are they doing? How are they ranking? What is the structure there? And then just test it. It’s just like paid traffic. You gotta test. Like, for me the way I did it, like Chester’s probably like my 30th blog I’ve done. So I know, like the structure.
Tanner Larsson 42:19
Yeah. So like, 10,000 hours already.
Kevin Urrutia 42:22
Yeah. So I used to do a lot of affiliate SEO too, for Amazon. Like “Best blah, blah. So that I learned a lot of SEO that way. And then…
Tanner Larsson 42:31
Kevin Urrutia 42:31
Yeah. So yeah. So I used to do that too, until I got banned by Amazon. So I tell people, like, if you’re really cautious about your brand, and you don’t want to mess up your SEO, make a second blog. And then just use that as testing, and then start getting your feet wet. Like, okay, how do you install Google Webmaster Tools? How can I rank for this random keyword? How long should it be? Use that as a way to test and the way to think about it is like — I know you’re like, “Oh, it’s gonna be expensive.” But it’s like education, you got to spend money to learn. And if you don’t spend money, then you’ll never know, you’ll always be guessing and then guessing is worse than never doing. And that’s why like, I just love experimenting. Because then like, I can read … I mean, you know, you can read and you can watch all you want but seeing is believing. You’re like, “Yeah. Oh, crap, this actually works.” You’re like, “Okay, I want to do more!” Yeah. So that’s where I would start. But again, two ways, either for your own blog, because if you have some SEO juice, or really dig a secondary blog, that’s just purely for testing. And that’s the way I would think about it. But again, there are so many tools out there like Keyword Planner, Ahrefs, I would say you should get that. It’s the best tool out there. It’s really expensive, though. So I’m not saying it’s cheap, it’s about 150 or 200 a month. But with that tool, you could put in any domain you want, and you can see what they’re ranking for. And then you can see how many links they are getting. So that should give you a gauge of like how much SEO you should be doing.
Tanner Larsson 43:52
And honestly, guys, you know, he says 150 a month. This is one we talked about all the time when people are asking us about apps or themes or crap like that, “Well, how much does it cost?” That is the wrong question. Okay. It’s never about how much it’s gonna cost. It’s number one, are you committed to using it? And if you use it, and it’s part of your strategy, then it can be worth it. And what’s your ROI going to be on it? How much… It’s not what if this doesn’t work? It’s what if this does work? And just like anything. So if you’re going to buy the tool, and then half ass it, yeah, of course. It’s not worth the money. But if you’re going to commit to like, “Hey, like we both said, SEO is a year plus plan, right?” Then if you’re willing to commit to that consistency, then yeah, those tools are worth it. Just like with an app, if you’re not going to use it, then the app is worthless. If you’re not going to configure it or test and tweak. It’s not worth it. But if you’re going to put the time in to do it right, then yeah, of course. It’s worth it. And it’s going to ROI for you.
Kevin Urrutia 44:43
Yeah. Ahrefs. I use it every day. It’s like the best for me. For most people like, “Oh, it’s kind of cheap for me.” So I don’t know. It’s like, because it gets you the traffic you want. It gives me everything I ever need. And I’m just like, it’s crazy. That’s only 150 so that’s why…
Tanner Larsson 44:57
Yeah, exactly if it gets me to 60,000 uniques a month. Organic. Am I willing to spend 150 bucks a month? Yeah.
Kevin Urrutia 45:04
Yeah, yeah. And I think with like anytime — you probably don’t do it Tanner. It’s like with apps. I’m like, 150 I’m like, I spend that like eating out at night….
Tanner Larsson 45:15
Yeah, I know. We spend money on some things. But we then need to get like, I’m not gonna spend $8 on a pair of socks. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I spend $8 on a coffee.
Kevin Urrutia 45:25
I was like, I just got coffee twice. I’m just like 10 bucks.
Tanner Larsson 45:28
Yeah, yeah. All right. So now we’re gonna put you to the fire a little bit. Let’s talk specifically Chester Travel because you’ve got your trekking pole company. You’ve got Chester Travel. And I know you’re working on a new supplement company as well, which we talked offline a little bit. It was more about like — maybe we’re gonna learn a lot from Chester Travel. So we were going this way. So what are some of the — what were the big takeaways you learned in building a luggage company online?
Kevin Urrutia 45:58
The biggest takeaway for Chester that we did was everything on Chester was custom. Which was great. Whereas Montem, for example, was kind of like traditional — what people do. It’s like you find a supplier, and then you can kind of slap your label on it with a private label. Yep. With Chester, we didn’t want to go from — we didn’t want to do that. Because we’ve learned from Montem. It’s like any business you’ve got. You’ve learned a little bit. Yeah. So we didn’t want to do that, because we saw competitors come into the space so easily. Whereas for Chester, we said, “Hey, we want to make something custom and something large, because most competitors don’t have the capital or have the time or resources to do something like this. And we saw that. So we’re like, “Okay, let’s go find a great supplier that isn’t going to be like ‘Can you copy this brand?'” We wanted to just do it custom. So for Chester, it took us six months to make. And the mold itself was like 75K. That’s why for Chester, we only sold the carry on for the first year because we didn’t have money to make the second one. It was too expensive. For Chester, we learned so much. We learned about manufacturing, custom manufacturing with other suppliers. So we work with the YKK Factory to make the custom zippers. So if you look at Chester zippers, it’s a custom C that clips together. It makes it C. Everything inside it is custom lining. The first Chester — if you look at it now it’s like a gray lining. But the first one was blue. And we’re just like, oh, people are gonna love blue. And was just like, no one bought it. So we had to put those on sale. And they’re like…
Tanner Larsson 47:28
You thought it’d be good.
Kevin Urrutia 47:30
Yeah, exactly. It’s like, yeah, I tell people it’s like, it’s a process. Like I thought it was pretty good. And then we put it online they’re like, “Why is it blue?” I’m just like, I thought it’d be different than most people. So we tried it. And then now we’re gonna drill.
Tanner Larsson 47:43
Yeah, that’s funny, because I avoided Tumi luggage for years because it was orange. They have that on the inside. Orange stuff. And then my business partner bought me one. And it was fine. I was like, opening it up. It was all great. And I was like, “Okay, cool. I just didn’t want that bright orange.” So yeah, I totally get it. Okay, so yeah, you did the custom route, which is awesome. We can have some conversation because I did the same thing. I ground up a tactical flashlight because I was in the gun space. And I learned a lot from that. But I wanted to share a little story with you about the mold. So my experience with mold previous to Ecom was like my dad’s friend owned an injection molding company. He would charge like 150 grand to make a mold. So I was like, “Oh, my God, molds are big money!” And obviously, yours was 75K. And so we were doing it back in the Facebook Page days when Facebook organic was huge, right? Everybody’s building these massive pages. We had pages and pages on everything from Duck Dynasty to Siberian Huskies. Pit bulls. Guns. Second Amendment, everything, right? Like millions. Moms all that stuff, right? And one of the ones that we were monetizing really effectively was dogs. What we did was we went and found a necklace that we liked. We came up with this Siberian Husky design pendant, right?
Kevin Urrutia 49:05
Tanner Larsson 49:06
Yeah, for Huskies. And it was like a rhodium plated costume jewelry like higher end. But not not all the way up to sterling silver. And it was going to sell for 24 or 25 bucks. Well, to produce these at consistent quality we needed to have a nice mold made. And as soon as the suppliers were like “Well, let me get you a quote on the mold.” I shut down. I stopped talking to him. I got scared. And I never talked to him again for like months and months and months. And I was on stage talking about this product and the story and how I didn’t ever follow through with it and whatnot. And they’re like, “Well, how much did the mold actually cost?” I don’t actually know. I never went back to them. So I finally went back to him. And I said, Hey, by the way, sorry that communication broke down. My fault. How much is the mold? 150 bucks. I’m like, Are you kidding me? And my unit cost was like $7. I was landing them in the US. For less than $1 and you know, thousands of them in one little airfreight box, and we were able to sell 10s and 10s of thousands of them. But just funny because you said mold. I even had like… as you said it I was like, I just have this weird irrational fear around mold costs.
Kevin Urrutia 50:17
I know. It’s like, sometimes they’re so expensive. But for us, we saw that price too we’re like, “Whoa.” And then we’re just like, “Okay, we got to go all in.”
Tanner Larsson 50:26
Yeah, a barrier to entry for your competitors too, right?
Kevin Urrutia 50:29
And that’s probably one of the biggest reasons why we saw it’s a barrier to entry. And we’re just like, Okay, let’s do it. We think that there’s potential and like, people are like, “How did you know?” I’m like, I don’t know, let’s take a shot.
Tanner Larsson 50:39
Like, you don’t actually know. You can do any guesswork you want. Right? But you eventually just have to go for it.
Kevin Urrutia 50:45
Yeah, I’m just like, based on like, it’s like, it’s coming forward based on all the stuff I’ve done before. I’m like, I at least think I have the knowledge and the skills to make my money back. And I think a lot of it — like anything Tanner. You know, it’s like self belief. Like, I think I can do it. And it’s all like a mindset…
Tanner Larsson 51:00
And if I don’t, it’s a loss. I’ll learn from it. And I’ll make it back somewhere else.
Kevin Urrutia 51:05
That’s exactly what we said like, “Okay, if we don’t make any money back, alright. At least we learned something.” And that’s sort of like, that’s the way I think about things. So.
Tanner Larsson 51:13
So with Chester, like, I wanted to touch on the shipping aspect, because we were joking about that before the show. Um, talk about like, you’re like, “Oh, crap, the shipping…” and like, product size and all that.
Kevin Urrutia 51:26
Shipping with Chester is… We can’t do air freight. Like I would love to do air freight. But that’s like, massive and you can only ship like a certain amount. We always ship through boats. Like even when we first started it was always container shipping. So when we had the carry on luggage, it was really expensive. Because it was only the carry on. But after we started selling the bigger sizes, we told our supplier “Hey, start packing them inside.”
Tanner Larsson 51:51
Yeah. stack them.
Kevin Urrutia 51:52
Yeah. So then we saved more money. But even then, It’s super, super expensive. Like we were working with a warehouse here in Brooklyn called ShipBob. And yeah, it’s really expensive to just ship them out. It’s almost like $20-$30. Sometimes even more to ship it out. So we really try to tell people to buy the bundles, because then we could save, you know, $20-$30 bucks on that. But even for us, like we were using ShipBob for a really long time. And then we just saw the cost was going up too high. So then we started using, obviously people know you can sell on Amazon through like FBA, but you could also just use her fulfillment services to … Yep, exactly. And that was much cheaper. And we’re just like, we just hand everything to Amazon now. But now, no one’s buying luggages. We have long-term storage fees. Yeah, that is just racking up at Amazon because Amazon’s not forgiving. They’re like, hey…
Tanner Larsson 52:42
And you’re not moving, you’re not turning over. So they’re not gonna be nice to you
Kevin Urrutia 52:46
No. So like, for us, we’re just like, “Oh, man, we need to figure stuff out.” And even for returns, this is a big piece of luggage, they returned it to our office. Our office has a wall of luggage. When people come to visit, I tell people to take a luggage if you want because we just have so many. But even when I like returning and like this big thing. We’ve been able to sort of save cost because going back to kind of like maybe a little bit of SEO stuff. When someone wants — a lot of people love the luggage because of the looks and it’s expensive. People like expensive products. We say “Hey, look, can you give us a link? I’ll give you some luggage.” And then you send them like one. So they’re like, “Oh, I would love a luggage.” They get them and they’re like, “Oh, well, this is amazing.” So use that, like resources that you have. Sometimes you can just give them something in return. And luggage is so big. It’s sometimes we give it to my mom. I’m like, Mom, just sell them on eBay. So just be like, okay… like, yeah,
Tanner Larsson 53:28
So yeah, big products, right? There are a lot of headaches that can happen with those and kind of what led you to your new brand, right?
Kevin Urrutia 53:48
Yeah, exactly. And that’s sort of where we just saw the shipping costs were too expensive. And just getting the logistics right. Just was not really like… We’re still doing it of course. And obviously it’s a bad time right now to sell luggages. We’re trying to do something different and take the learnings from Chester to build our new brand, which is like we said before supplements. And I think that’s some stuff that I probably learned from like watching you guys and the stuff that we’ve seen sell online. Just smaller, but recurring as well.
Tanner Larsson 54:15
Of course, yeah, that consumable aspect really makes it nice for your repeat customer rate and everything. Speaking of actually repeating customer ratings, do you even know what your repeat rate is on luggage? Have you had it long enough that you can see like people coming back? Or is it still more of a one time?
Kevin Urrutia 54:30
Yes. So for us it’s like more of a one time and when we came out with the bigger sizes, we did send an email blast and we’re promoting those so that people did come back and buy those. But like the repeat rate, we don’t have that number yet. It’s like too young. And yeah, that’s another thing too. We saw what the life of a customer is going to be like. They buy luggage now and then what is the next time they’re going to buy one. Because we made our — it’s like a good and bad thing. It’s like you make your luggage so good that people are like, “Oh, this is really good. Like why would I need another one?” Yeah, I could see why…
Tanner Larsson 55:01
It’s like damned if you do right a good product and they don’t need it again.
Kevin Urrutia 55:04
So yeah, it’s like, the shell is super strong. It’s anti scratch. So then you’re like, “Oh, this is really good.” I’m just like, “Yeah, like now that I have one. I don’t think I would need another one anytime soon.” So yeah,
Tanner Larsson 55:16
Maybe your kids need one at some point. But like, it’s not a very consistent purchase habit.
Kevin Urrutia 55:22
Tanner Larsson 55:23
So this was a great episode. We’ve covered a whole bunch of awesome stuff. I love the SEO aspect. Because I mean, I don’t know anybody else that actually talks about Ecommerce SEO the way you do and actually has tactics — it’s more like “Oh, yeah, SEO is a long process. Just start writing.” No, you’re like, “Okay, do this, do this, do this.” Which I love. Now, you also have your own podcast, you have Voy media. Where can people … you guys need to be listening to this podcast for sure. I’m actually gonna do an episode with you this week or next week? Yeah, I’m gonna do something, right. Yeah, actually tomorrow! It is tomorrow. That’s right. So that’ll be cool. And then anyway, like, how can people follow you? And what’s the best way to connect with you? And you know, what it — actually once you summarize what Voy Media does, because it’s not what we’ve been talking about.
Kevin Urrutia 56:09
Yeah, we don’t do any SEO. Yep, this goes back to what I said before, I know the value of SEO, but a lot of partners and people don’t. So I’m just like, I don’t want to be working with you for like a month and you’re like, “Why is my traffic not increasing? I’m just like, that doesn’t work with SEO. Go work with another SEO agency that can serve you that. Here at Voy Media, we mainly do like paid ads. So Facebook ads, Instagram ads, and a lot has to do with Ecommerce products, and info products as well. So let’s do a Voy Media. And we have a podcast called Digital Marketing Fastlane. So we try to talk about Facebook ads, of course, but also just like marketing in general, kind of like there’s so much more to marketing and running a business than just the ads. So I try to help people. It’s about everything that you’re kind of doing. And then to follow me, I’m like really big on Twitter. Like as I use it. No I’m not big at all. Like no one follows me. But I like it. I like it. I’m always on Twitter, so you can follow me. It’s just twitter.com/danest. And then again, Voy Media, just VoyMedia.com. V O Y
Tanner Larsson 57:10
Yep. Okay, so yeah, that’s kind of cool to see a Facebook ad guy actually advocating SEO, which is you don’t hear that, which is another thing that makes it so awesome to talk to you because you actually believe in the multi prong approach and everything.
Kevin Urrutia 57:22
Yeah, I love SEO. It’s my favorite traffic source. So if I could do SEO I’d do that. But it’s just like so hard to get it done.
Tanner Larsson 57:29
Absolutely. It’s a time taker. It just takes time, right? Look, you know, Kevin, this was great. I really appreciate you being on here. And guys, make sure you follow him on Twitter, go to VoyMedia.com Check out his podcast. And speaking of podcasts, it’s time to make sure you guys are subscribed to this podcast, Optimize Ecommerce. We’re releasing episodes every week, we’ve got lots of great content to share with you guys. The engagement rate from what we’ve been seeing has been huge. So make sure you are subscribed, both on iTunes or Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts and then also on YouTube. This is a video podcast. So we also share stuff on our screen from time to time, do site audits or critiques and things like that. And you’re gonna want to be able to see that as well. So if you’re on YouTube, hit the subscribe button. If you’re on iTunes or Stitcher or whatever. Subscribe there and leave us a review. And if you need show notes, or you want to get access to all the different links go to BuildGrowScale.com/podcast. It’s all right there. Kevin, bro. This was fun.
Kevin Urrutia 58:22
Thanks for having me.
Tanner Larsson 58:23
I’ll see you guys later. Ciao.
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Want us to do an Audit on your e-commerce store and show you how you can make some quick changes that will dramatically increase sales and profits without increasing your traffic?
Ecommerce Store Audit
Want us to do an Audit on your e-commerce store and show you how you can make some quick changes that will dramatically increase sales and profits without increasing your traffic?