Optimized Ecommerce EP 021 – Gathering Customer Data Gold
In today’s episode of The Optimized Ecommerce Podcast, Tanner and Dom discuss the importance of collecting and analyzing customer data, and how you can put it to good use to improve revenue for your online shop. There may be a hundred and one ways to do this, but you must find the perfect one
Welcome to Episode #021 of Optimized Ecommerce – Gathering Customer Data Gold. I’m your host, Tanner Larsson CEO of BGS with Dominik Meiu, Revenue Optimization Specialist at BGS.
In today’s episode, we are joined by Dominik Meiu, he is not only the youngest team member in BGS but also one of the most effective revenue experts in our pool of experts in our optimization team. In fact, some of our biggest accounts rely on his technical skills to boost their sales and scale.
Truth be told, we are overwhelmed by too much data. Oftentimes we don’t know what data is needed, what can we do with it and how do we get it. That’s what we’ll find out in today’s episode as Dom shares some very important points on how he collects customer data and how it can be converted into revenue.
BGS means Build Grow Scale! It is a community that we founded where eCommerce entrepreneurs and physical product sellers come to learn how to take their businesses to the next level.
Here’s just a taste of what we talked about today:
Icons do the work!
Believe it or not but icons get more responses and engagement than words. Your website visitors slash potential buyers are now reading less, and scrolling more. They scroll too fast that they miss relevant information such as shipping costs. Icons make them pause and read the text next to it. Icons simplify the look and make it convenient for your customers to locate what they need to know.
Avatars are the next big thing
Your avatar is the embodiment of your ideal customer, the perfect reflection, easily recognizable by everyone. It should be a detailed representation of the customers you want to sell to. But you can only customize your avatar if you have collected the right information from your visitors and repeat customers. So don’t miss that opportunity to gather information for your avatar.
Do not be a General Store
Do not even try and attempt to sell to “everybody” because no one wants to buy from a store that sells to everyone. Instead, use your customer avatar to narrow down your target customers. This is a more profitable way to do business than trying to push your product to a general market base.
We also discussed a few other fun topics, including:
- There are a lot of ways you can collect data from your potential and existing customers. You just have to find out which one will work for your store.
- You can utilize a lot of free and paid online resources like Wufoo, Lucky Orange and of course, Google to collect, segregate, and compile all these data.
- Once you have all the data, you can get creative with it. Do not limit yourself to the conventional way of thinking, always think out of the box. The sky is the limit.
But you’ll have to watch or listen to the episode to hear about those!
How To Stay Connected With Dominik
Want to stay connected with Tanner and Dominik? Please check out their social profiles below.
Also, Dom mentioned the following items on the show. You can find that on:
Tanner Larsson 0:07
Hey, and welcome back to the Optimized Ecommerce Podcast. I am Tanner Larsson, CEO of Build Grow Scale and your host for this podcast. Today we are going to be doing something a little bit different. We’re going to talk about some more of the geeky, somewhat boring, but super critically important stuff. “Why It is Important for You to Capture Your Customers’ Data and Information and Analyze that. And then, not just why you need to do it, because we probably heard that a million times. But the problem with why you need to do it — that people have a problem with is they don’t know how.
So, we’re going to cover the how of actually capturing that customer data. And more importantly, once you’ve got it, what do you do with it? And how do you use it to improve your store’s performance? And to help me do that today, we have one of the BGS Optimization Experts: Dominik Meiu. He is our youngest-ever team member to join the BGS. I think he was about I don’t know, what were you? 11? when you started working with us? And he’s almost 12 now, so he’s doing really, really well.
Anyway, the cool thing is, you’ll notice he actually has some face-fur now. So like, he’s definitely hitting puberty and things like that. But anyway, aside from the fact that he’s like 11, or 12 years old, he is, by far one of the most dominant forces in the BGS Optimization Team. He managed some of our biggest stores in the optimization world and just as a wizard when it comes to making a store convert and scale. So, Dominik, thanks for being here. And of course, we’ll call you Dom the rest of the time, because Dominik is too long of a word.
Dominik Meiu 1:39
Tanner Larsson 1:40
Yeah, happy to be on here. Cool. So how old were you actually when you started?
Dominik Meiu 1:45
I think I was 15.
Tanner Larsson 1:47
Okay, so I wasn’t too far off. But yeah, you were pretty young. And then now you are 16. Right.
Dominik Meiu 1:54
Uh, almost. 19. Yeah.
Tanner Larsson 1:57
So definitely getting up there in years. We’re gonna have to get him some Geritol soon. But for now, he’s still full of energy. And why don’t we kick this off, Dom, with your kind of telling people a little bit more about who you are, what you do, and how you work with BGS?
Dominik Meiu 2:11
Yeah. As I was saying, I actually started when I was 15. I started hopping on some of the team calls with Matt Stafford and some of the other original ROs. I’ve always been interested in entrepreneurship for as long as I can remember. So when I got presented with this opportunity, it was awesome. And over the last four years, I’ve definitely grown a ton as far as the revenue optimization stuff goes to where I’m now working with a couple of pretty big clients as well as training groups of new RO specialists as they come in. And, you know, getting them up to the level that they need to be to take on their own big clients and contribute to BGS as a whole.
Tanner Larsson 2:57
Absolutely. So to build on that a little bit. First. If you’re new to the show or kind of unfamiliar, what we’re talking about, RO stands for Revenue Optimization. When we say an RO, we mean one of our Revenue Optimization experts like Dom or Aleks or James or Eric or some of the other guests like Haley that you’ve seen on the show. What he also touched on is actually really cool. He was 15, 19 now, been with us, kind of basically, since the beginning of the new RO process that we pioneered in the last four to five years. But he’s also training other ROs.
Now the thing about Build Grow Scale. You can’t actually hire for what we do. So if we want to put a job ad up, we can’t hire for Revenue Optimization experience or expertise. It is something that we have to train internally. And Zach’s dad who is actually our COO, Zach, developed an internship program with Haley and a few of our other team members to basically take people off the street or offer a job ad as an intern. We put them through a program that’s six months long. And on the other end of it, turn that into a fully capable revenue optimization expert who can then go into a process of learning how to work on the store.
So during that six-month process, they learn a lot. But Dom takes over after that when they’re still an intern, basically, a junior level RO. And then he’s the one that helps introduce them to working on actual client and partner stores, and giving them the skill set to learn how to do that and all the more advanced type of work, which is really amazing because a lot of the ROs that are coming in are way older, and have way more “experience” than Dom has, just because of life.
But Dom’s expertise is so powerful and so awesome that he’s the guy that we have training them, and teaching them and then basically Dom has his own little version of children running off and now running their own stores. So it’s been a pretty cool experience to have Dom work with us, as well as watching him grow.
The cool thing is, not only is he awesome at the training aspect of it, he’s definitely in the trenches every day. He sees a lot of massive numbers and all different aspects of Ecom. And he’s pretty ninja at it. So today, we’re going to go through the importance of data, collecting that data, how to use that data, what to do.
So to dive into that, let’s start with the first question, which is, why is gathering data from your customers so important versus just other data? Why is the customer data so important?
Dominik Meiu 5:39
I mean, like you’re saying, it’s probably the most important thing that you need to actually do when running an e-commerce site. Without it, you’re basically just running in the dark and it turns into a guessing game which even you know, as a certified RO I’m just doing it as a guessing game. I’m not going to find any wins everything I come from everything I do sparks from data from our customers. Like, think of it this way? So let’s say I go to the doctor and I just say, I don’t feel good. But the doctor, you know, what’s wrong with me? Do I have a sore throat? Does your back hurt? Or Does your head hurt, and I just don’t tell them anything, I don’t feel good. The doctor is not going to be able to diagnose me with anything without any data. And that’s the same thing with e-commerce sites. If you’re not tracking any of that data, you’re not going to be able to diagnose any of the issues actually going on with your site. And each site is unique, you know, each site is going to have its own problems, its own faults that need to be fixed. But if you don’t have that data to know what faults need to be fixed, you’re just going to be running in the dark trying to fix random things that may actually already be performing well. So, I mean, that’s kind of the gist of it. And it’s just, it’s really, really important.
Tanner Larsson 6:50
Okay, so, you know, I had thought since I know we’re gonna go way deep into this, but before we go deep into it, I get this a lot and I see it all over the place. You know, everybody talks about data, or KPIs, or whatever. What is data specifically, like give us some examples of some of the data that’s super critically important that they should be tracking.
Dominik Meiu 7:11
Right. So one of my favorite things that I’ll actually get into more later is data coming specifically from our customers. And you’re going to get that through things like polls and surveys, on-site polls, pre-purchase, post-purchase, email, surveys, anything like that.
And then, of course, there’s Google Analytics, tracking the button clicks, seeing what’s working, what’s not as far as that stuff goes. And then just heat maps, user recordings, user tests, and things like that.
Tanner Larsson 7:40
Gotcha. That’s cool. So going on from that, what are some of the best ways to gather specific data on your customers, I know you just actually touched on a couple of them, but let’s go ahead and dive into that.
Dominik Meiu 7:51
So diving into that. I had mentioned polls and surveys are some of my favorite ways to actually gather data specifically from the customer. And there A few ways you can do that, you know, there’s the pre-purchase, there’s a post-purchase, and then there’s the email, post-purchase surveys, and they each kind of serve their own purpose, pre-purchase, you’re gonna get a lot of volumes, because everybody’s seeing it. Everybody that lands on the site will actually see that pre-purchase survey, something you can do is ask them, you know, is there anything holding you back from purchasing right now? Are there any questions you have that aren’t being answered? And you can actually utilize both those questions on the post-purchase, pre-purchase anything like that? Those are super powerful questions. But the thing about the pre-purchase surveys is you’re going to get a lot of answers there. But it’s not going to be quite as valuable as the answers you’re going to be getting post-purchase, because the difference between the two is the answers you’re getting post-purchase are coming from your actual customers coming from that customer persona that you want to build on. So I definitely recommend testing both. I wouldn’t recommend having a pre-purchase survey all the time. I have noticed when I activate one, it does dip conversion rate very slightly when it’s worth it to get the data that you’re getting back, but I, you know, I wouldn’t have it on all the time compared to post-purchase these people already bought. So I definitely recommend having a post-purchase survey on the thank you page is one of the best ways to do that. I’d have it just pop up. You can use Lucky Orange, Hotjar. I’m sure there are a bunch more other platforms out there that you can do that. But you want to keep those simple one to two questions that most where I actually get this super valuable data from that I’ve found test you know winning by 20-30% before is going to be the post-purchase email service. That’s going to be emailing the customers maybe a week or two after they purchased with anywhere from maybe 7 to 10 question survey that you set up in Wufoo or any other survey form and then offering an incentive to get them to answer it. So something that one of my clients does it actually gives them a $20 gift card to the site, fill in this survey, and it’s got 10 questions on it all, you know, kind of asking different pieces of the funnel different pieces, questions, they still have concerns, things they liked about the product, things they didn’t like, stuff like that. So I would probably say, out of all data gathering methods, that is where I’ve found the biggest possible wins.
Tanner Larsson 10:37
That’s actually a good one to talk about because it’s not your normal way of, you know, post-purchase survey and it’s not the normal conversion rate optimization methodology for doing it. And it’s something that I think was an Alex was the first one that to roll that out. A couple of years ago, I think was the one he did that with his with one of his app stores. But anyway, it’s been something that we’ve pretty much rolled out across all app stores now. And a lot of our we also have taught it to some of our econ insider members and things like that. But one of the things that always comes back on that is, I have to give them a $20 gift card? You think about this, that’s the wrong focus like I would rather give them I give them a $20 bill if I could get the answers and the information that they’re giving on those surveys because it has helped me to make a whole lot more money. But the devious part of this is we’re not giving them a $20 bill, we’re giving them $20 in store credit, to come back to the store they’ve already bought from and buy again, so we’re actually getting information from them, which serves us and then giving them store credit to buy more on our store and become a repeat purchaser which also serves us and serves them but it’s definitely stacked in our favor. And the other thing is one thing that if when you will have another whole episode eventually on gift cards and store credit because there’s some powerful stuff there but stores credit, actually psychology and studies and all the things show that when you give someone store credit, the inclination is they always wind up spending more than whatever the store credit amount is, especially since in most stores, there’s not a single product on the store that is $20 with shipping, so there’s always more money added to it. And then also store credit is a form of goodwill. So from a karma perspective, once they get the store credit, and they Oh, thank you for that. They feel they want to reciprocate yet again, by spending more with you. So there’s a whole lot of really cool stuff going on in what Dom was just talking about, not to mention the fact that the gold is really in what they give you right.
Dominik Meiu 12:40
And I actually have some stats on that.
I have that $20 gift card. They actually only have about a 30 to 40% take rate on that. So only 30 to 40% of those people actually getting that gift card end up using it. And then of those 30 to 40% of people, the average order value used with the gift cards is sitting around 70 to $80. So they’re getting that $20 gift cards just like you were saying, but actually going to the store and spending $80. So we’re actually profiting on these people rather than –
Tanner Larsson 13:15
For giving you information that you’re going to make even more money with.
Dominik Meiu 13:18
Exactly, yeah. Yeah.
Tanner Larsson 13:20
Wickedly cool strategy, something we do all the time, and highly recommend you guys can do it. So we’ve touched a little bit, you talked a little bit about some of the strategies are there any other strategies you want to touch on before we move on?
Dominik Meiu 13:31
I know this one, I want to talk mostly about the polls and surveys, but as far as some other data gathering methods, just make sure GA is being utilized 100% that’s a lot more analytical, a lot more, you know, it’s this button working or scroll depth, site speed, stuff like that. But it’s just as valuable as surveys, as well as making sure you have heat maps … session recordings, watching how people interact with that page.
Tanner Larsson 13:59
For someone who doesn’t know, why don’t you explain what a heatmap is, and a session recording?
Dominik Meiu 14:04
So the session recording software is going to be something like Lucky Orange, Hotjar. And I know there’s more, nothing else is coming to mind. But it will basically record the screens of your users. So you can watch exactly how they interact with your site, what they’re clicking on what they’re reading if they’re skipping over a bunch of the text, what images they’re looking at, things like that. And then heat maps basically just take all that data of like, thousands of recordings and put it onto like a flat image and show you what’s being clicked on the most, what people are spending those time on and things like that.
Tanner Larsson 14:40
So the heat map, like it says it’s kind of like almost like a Doppler radar image of the store right. So the areas that are more impacted or have the most clicks or movement or focus are shown in red, and then the colder colors, the blues, the purples, whatever are the areas that are ignored the most. So you basically have an almost like a ghosted image of your site. But and then overlaid on that is a see-through shade of colors. where you can see the hot spots, the cold spots, and kind of where people’s eyes and mouse are taken. So then you can figure out how they’re interacting with the page.
Dominik Meiu 15:14
Tanner Larsson 15:16
Okay, so we’ve kind of gone through the strategies and stuff, but cool. you’re collecting all this data, you’re giving away $20 gift cards, making 80 bucks back, which is awesome in and of itself. But now we’ve got all this data. How do we use it? What do we do with it?
Dominik Meiu 15:31
So this is-
Tanner Larsson 15:32
First of all, before we can use it, we got to analyze it right. So let’s start there. Let’s talk about analyzing the data and then use it.
Dominik Meiu 15:41
Yeah, so this can either be the fun part or the not-fun part depending on who you are and what you like. It’s definitely time-consuming to run through these polls and surveys, but I promise you, it’s entirely worth it, and the amount of information you’ll actually learn that will be completely shocking that you would have never thought before is insane. So what I normally do with these surveys, let’s take the email survey, for example. I use Wufoo, which is just a survey platform. And then I actually export all of those answers every single answer to all 10 questions into a Google Sheet, Google Sheets. Make a new page in that sheet for each question. And then what I do is I instead of like answering or writing down every single question, I’ll scroll through all the answers to each question, and I’ll categorize each thing. So let’s, for example, let’s say some categories. Let’s say the question was, what question that wasn’t being answered on this site.
And then I’m getting a lot of answers to do with let’s say, how long is this product last or things similar to that or I’m trying to think of some other stuff we’ve had are like, what’s the shelf life on this product? Or does this product add protection or things like that I’m actually talking about a vehicle coding, just so you guys know, um, and things like that? So a lot of different answers can kind of categorize into those categories. So what I’ll do is I’ll write each of those categories out as I’m scrolling through all these questions, and then rank those. So let’s say, you know, I’m scrolling through and like, half the responses are, well, how long does this product last? Then obviously, that’s going to be the top answer on my sheet that I need to address. So I’ll do that process for every single question. It is pretty lengthy, but it’s pretty sweet is to see what you have learned about your product, your site, and your customers. And then from there, you’ll have every single answer ranked in order as to you know, how many people actually said that so then I’ll create a hypothesis. From each one, so I’ll go back to the How long does each product last? So I was looking at the site I was on, and we actually answer that question. But we answered it in a way that people were just scrolling through so fast. They weren’t reading it. Alright. So what I did is, I took the answer I was getting from that survey, and then went and looked at some user recordings to see why people weren’t actually seeing that. we were answering it, but people weren’t seeing that. So what I did instead is I created a hypothesis in my head knowing that people had this question, but they weren’t seeing it on the site. So the hypothesis was I need to take this and branch it out in a different way. So what I did instead of having a long like product description on the page, I branched out into icons that people could easily scan with just a big headline. So I think the headline was, like last three to six months in front of a headline as basically like a UBP icon. And then went through and then AV tested that and actually ended up getting like a 25% lift in conversion rate. Yeah, you go back a little bit, I guess the story of this whole test was I pulled the top three answers. I was getting four, why did you buy this product? So I asked the consumers like, why did you pick this product on our site? What about this product made you buy it, and then took the top three questions that weren’t being answered, and then turned it into six icons. So three to do with the biggest reasons people were buying it, and then three to answer their biggest questions turn into the six icons, and it was a massive, massive, massive winner.
Tanner Larsson 19:45
Awesome. So you’re almost the icons – icons were image-based that tied to a text piece, right that was kind of helping explain what it was.
Dominik Meiu 19:54
Exactly. So it’s just an icon with a header and then like a one-sentence description. Under each that, so what you’ll learn is, in today’s world, nobody wants to read anymore, they landed on a website, they’re just going to scan, nobody’s going to read your paragraph product. So breaking it into icons, people are scanning, they can just read the header. And then if they want to expand on that, then they can read the little description under that.
Tanner Larsson 20:22
Yeah, building out your stuff for scanning, and no walls of text or long blocks of copy is a huge, huge benefit to your consumers. But to go back, so we’re talking about, you know, how do you analyze it? But it’s, it’s more it’s not like you just want to actually you talked about, but I want to point it out, I guess I should say is that it’s not a single step process, like you get the stuff. And then yeah, you could just read them in the Wufoo form, like individually, but you’re not going to get the effect unless you can see them cumulatively and see what commonalities and what common threads come to the surface. So In this case, for this one little step to do this one test there was collecting the data, exporting the data, you know, organizing and breaking down the data into different things in a spreadsheet, then, you know, ranking them based on responses to see what the response was then taking those top responses of like what the problem was going to another piece of software, which in this case was a session recording to see, Hey, I know we answer this question. But why aren’t they seeing it? So now you look at the session recording to see, well, what’s happening in your case, you saw they were scrolling past it, or there was a cold area on a heat map or whatever. So now, we’ve used basically three tools to analyze the data to get to where we can actually figure out what we want to test. What we want to come up with to see if we can improve that problem, or solve that problem.
Dominik Meiu 21:51
It’s like the scientific method.
Tanner Larsson 21:53
Correct? Yeah, it totally is. So I want to make sure people realize that that it’s not, it’s not just this one little thing and like, you know, Dom said it is labor-intensive, but it’s a big step. In their case, there’s like a 20 plus percent lift, just that one little fix. And it was actually the top three and top three. So I guess you could call it six fixes. But really, it was one change to the page that made a massive 20% lift on a store that has an AOV of what?
Dominik Meiu 22:19
Tanner Larsson 22:22
Dominik Meiu 22:23
Its millions of dollars of extra revenue.
Tanner Larsson 22:26
Yeah, millions of bucks of extra revenue, just from that one test. Okay, so this is the importance of it. And then also, I kind of we touched on really kind of how you’re supposed to use it, anything else you want to touch on and how you can use that data that you’re getting.
Dominik Meiu 22:41
I mean, just be creative with it. Like, I noticed that one of the biggest problems had to do with the product page, and then the product description, but obviously, you know, each site’s unique, each site is going to have its own issues. So be creative, you know, take your data, and then be creative about it. Like I didn’t really have any huge data behind putting the top three things and then the top three questions behind anything that was just a creative idea I had to push, maybe, you know, people are gonna want to see the three coolest things about this product and then answer the three biggest questions. And that test ended up just being massive. Of course, it’s sparked from data. So just hypothesize different things, create different ideas, and then dive into those ideas. And, you know, brainstorm which one you think will work the best.
Tanner Larsson 23:31
Yep. Now, just to kind of touch on that a little bit and expand. We have talked a lot about user testing everything and we and we’ve isolated that to the not user testing, excuse me, but session recording and post-survey data. We’ve isolated that to talk about the product page, but it’s not the product page alone, right. The information you find a lot of times you wind up making changes elsewhere in the buyer’s journey, correct.
Dominik Meiu 23:58
It’s everything yeah, this specific example had to do with the product page, but it’s everything.
Tanner Larsson 24:03
Yeah. So you may find, you know, on a, why did you almost not purchase that you weren’t clear if you were going to be charged shipping or not even though it says free shipping, but then when you get into the cart, it says shipping will be calculated at checkout.
Dominik Meiu 24:16
Tanner Larsson 24:17
So that kind of in that, and I’m giving that as an example because it’s something that happens all the time.
Dominik Meiu 24:23
I have an uncle actually that I use them for checkout. So it was through developing a customer Avatar and pulling data from the surveys. I noticed that checkout wasn’t converting as well as I would like it to be. So I had an idea to add some UVP icons on there. But I need to know
Tanner Larsson 24:44
Dominik Meiu 24:45
Unique Value Proposition icon. So basically just four simple icons, three, two, however many you want. And I just added them to check out but I needed to know what the content was to be. So I developed a customer avatar which we’ll actually get to here in a minute. And through that, I learned that the main target audience was very, like Southern American driven, as well as you know, supporting like family-owned businesses, American owned, shipping through the US, and things like that. So what I ended up doing is making four icons, one being made in the USA, another one addressing the shipping concerns saying fast shipping from Missouri because of their warehouses out of Missouri. Third one family-owned business as it was a family-owned business. And then the fourth one, I think I use thousands of five-star reviews. And I use that because one of the top answers we were getting to Why did you buy this product reviewed, and then just adding those four icons, just simple icons to check out increased conversion rate by 9.2%, which is a massive, massive win for checkout.
Tanner Larsson 25:57
Yeah, that’s your most valuable customer. Traffic right there and 9.2% lift is again, millions and millions and millions of dollars for this store per year. So, okay, so we touched on it, let’s go back and formally address it though. What is a customer avatar?
Dominik Meiu 26:16
So customer avatar is basically just a detailed profile of your ideal customer. So basically, it’s who you picture your perfect customer is and get detailed with it. So maybe it’s a 42-year-old male with two children who love hunting, fishing, and lives in Texas. So, your customer avatar’s one person
Tanner Larsson 26:45
And were not making this up though. Now we’re now we get how are we get? How are we coming up with the fact that they’re married with kids and all that stuff?
Dominik Meiu 26:53
So that’s from data. That’s from surveys that are from Google Analytics, especially if you’re utilizing g Right, you’ll actually be able to track a lot of that stuff. As well as that’s pretty much it because for surveys and Google Analytics –
Tanner Larsson 27:10
And then taking again, the kind of the average or the higher end, whatever the 80/20 of all that data is to formulate your avatars correct.
Dominik Meiu 27:18
And then once you have that specific avatar, you want to utilize that to, you know, generate more revenue through your site through marketing through every single aspect of your e-commerce business, you actually target that person. Now, obviously, you don’t only want to target a 42-year-old man with two kids in Texas, but you want to take a broad spectrum that that dude kind of fits in the center of and target all of those people.
Tanner Larsson 27:47
And to further clarify on that, so your avatar once you have this person, let’s say our avatars name is Jed because Jed likes to hunt and fish and whatever, you know, it’s awesome to name them actually most companies who have successful avatars actually have a name for them. And you may have a male Avatar and a woman, a female avatar, you may actually have multiple male avatars if you have, your store sells a range of products, but your two main age groups are you know 25 to 35 male and then 45 to 55 male, you may have two avatars you may have Jim the older one and Dom the younger one, right? You could do that. But the thing is, is your avatar is that then what you use for your marketing, your advertising your buyer’s journey, how you write your copy who you’re talking to when you write an email, that is and how you layout your site is to benefit Jim and Dom because that’s the person that’s that you’re building your entire company to serve.
Dominik Meiu 28:44
One of the biggest mistakes I see is trying to sell to everyone. There’s no business out there that sells to everyone. You know, you want to pick that market and you’re going to be 10 times more profitable advertising and delivering to that market than trying to just push everybody to your product,
Tanner Larsson 29:03
Now before we get into like how to use the avatar to make more money, which you did touch on a little bit, let’s talk about the avatar in its relationship to like optimization. Optimization, we always say is a moving target, right? Just because you optimized your site’s optimized one day doesn’t mean tomorrow, it’s going to remain optimized, right?
How does that apply to avatars?
Dominik Meiu 29:24
Yeah, so your customer avatar is going to constantly evolve, just as the world changes is, everything changes, obviously, people change as well. So you want to utilize that on your site. As far as you know, a lot of the copy goes, a lot of the images and even new product ideas can spark off your customer avatar. And you know, like I was saying it is always changing, want to keep testing different strategies. Obviously, it’s never going to just take like a sharp right turn in another direction. But it can always evolve in small ways. So you want to constantly test different strategies, appealing to slightly different avatars, and see which one worked the best. And then maybe you’ll learn that, you know, maybe he doesn’t love fishing as much as you thought he did, you know, things like that.
Tanner Larsson 30:10
Another aspect of that is, you know because obviously, you know, Dom is working on a lot of big stores like huge, huge, massive, you know, eight-figure stores that he works on. But we also throw our econ insider program in our e-commerce Academy programs have a lot of more startup stores, smaller six-figure stores that you know, we’re sort of that does 10 k a month, and they’re really trying to get moving. A store that’s in a startup phase or a small growth phase is just, you know, kind of getting things figured out still, you may be targeting an avatar that two years from now you’ll realize was never the avatar you should have been targeting. Initially, initial avatar research comes when you’re trying to start a brand comes not from necessarily your data, but from what other external market data you can compile to give you educated guesswork of what your avatar would look like. That’s why it’s so important to do what Dom’s talking about, because you may hone in on this avatar. And realize that, you know, when you actually start selling, if you look at your data, that it’s not even the same thing. We’ve even had big stores who are telling us that their avatar is a male, and forget the other demographics. But then when we actually look at their data, 80 plus percent of their buyers are female, legitimate, it’s a male product, but the females are the ones buying it so that they’re doing all their marketing and everything completely wrong. So just know, especially in smaller stores that your avatar will more than likely evolve potentially multiple times. And then even if you are a successful and a big store like Dom was saying, it’s gonna evolve and it’s going to be updated. So you want to continue to look at that stuff at that data. Alright, so we now understand the avatar. We know it’s important. We know we get it from the data that we’re collecting that you already talked about. And then through our Google Analytics and our tag manager data. So now we’ve got our avatar, what do we how do we use that avatar to just fill the bank account?
Dominik Meiu 32:07
Exactly, yeah. So it’s similar to kind of what we’ve been brushing on to it’s, as far as you know, the on-site stuff goes, it’s going to be your copy, it’s going to be your images, it’s going to be how you approach the delivery of that product. You know, it’s the design. If it’s going to be like an older, maybe country audience, your designs obviously going to be a lot different than if it’s going to be a Sephora, like the makeup brand for young women, you know. And then like you’re saying, with marketing as well, you’re gonna want to be targeting that audience. You’re gonna be writing your ad, copy your ad graphics towards that avatar. You want to make sure everything correlates so all your emails all your on-site, copy all your ad copy, everything needs to correlate to that same avatar.
Tanner Larsson 32:57
So another question I want to jump on now because going from the average But we’ve covered a ton there. I think that’s a really good nuggets there we get, we can kind of shift topics a little bit. This one is more about like, obviously, I know your background, I know what you work on and you for the people listening. Dom is kind of he’s been all over the place within the BGS framework. He’s, you know, being one of the pioneering intern type guys to learn RO as we taught it. Before we even had a real program. He’s worked on tons of stores within our amplified Partnership Program. He’s assisted in store audits. He actually if you if you’re interested in becoming an amplified partner, chances are you will do an exploratory call with Dom before you ever get to me or anybody else on the hill to give you a whole bunch of value in those kind of calls. But he also has worked across different stores. He’s worked with our ecom insider members, he’s done jam sessions, where we critique stores, through our members, and he’s just kind of through the gamut. Alright. So knowing that or I want to ask you, Dom. So people are getting realized you’re drawing on that experience. If there was one common theme, or one thing specifically that you see over and over and over again, in our app stores or other stores, that people are just not getting or doing wrong, what would that be?
Dominik Meiu 34:16
That’s funny, and I’m not a problem. So I’m not doing this on purpose, but it is gathering data wrong. It really, really is.
Tanner Larsson 34:26
I was not setting you up for that. I was actually expecting a different answer. But okay, go with it.
Dominik Meiu 34:30
I mean, yeah, I mean, just even working with these big clients to see how to mess up some of their GA is. And like you’re saying your customer avatar, they have no idea. I mean, they are selling, but they have no idea how much they’re actually missing out on and I’ve seen that time after time. And I promise I’m not just saying that because of the, you know what this is about, but it’s true, just time after time. I continue to see that.
Tanner Larsson 35:00
Yeah. And that’s it, you know, to touch on that I love the answer. I mean, I didn’t expect you to go a different route, but it is the truth. And, you know, we, one of the biggest things that we if you were to say one of our secrets to success is our ability to analyze and use Google Analytics and Google Tag Manager data. Really, really well, probably better than honestly anybody that we’ve ever met. So that’s a big weapon that we use, and we just amplify partner stores come into us, the first thing we do, is we audit their Google Analytics account, and, and their GA Tag Manager and all of that, and we get in there and we’re like, okay, that store owner comes to us. Oh, yeah, our Google index is great. It’s set up well. We got great data coming from that. The problem with Google Analytics is if when you turn it on and set it up if it’s set up incorrectly, or not collecting data correctly, it doesn’t tell you that it just delivers the data as if it’s 100%. legit. We have yet to have an app store in over four years come to us that we didn’t have to completely rebuild and reconfigure them. Google Analytics and Google Tag Manager to make it collect data correctly. So what does that mean? These stores, if they were using their Google data, which most of them are not if they were, they were making decisions based on false data. So they’re almost successful in spite of themselves. And this is not a knock against these stores that are all great stores very powerful, and they’re doing great, but they can be doing so much better. And that’s where we come in to help them do that. So that’s actually a great point to that, Dom.
Dominik Meiu 36:29
I’m curious what direction did you think I was going to go in?
Tanner Larsson 36:32
I thought you were going to go more into basically just dialing in like the checkout and cart pages because we see that with the biggest drop off is more and more of a tactical answer less of hard work. Answer. Yeah, cuz I mean, that’s honestly, you know, nobody wants to do the hard work. I mean, obviously, our team is totally different in that aspect. That’s why we’re so good at what we do. But yeah, that was where my head was going was to more of a tactical like, do If this one thing this will make better. Yeah, but honestly, I think you gave them what they needed to hear. So we do have I have one more question that I have to throw out there. Guys, what you do not know about Dom right now is he is hiding his beautiful hair behind this hat. Yes, there we go. You see this? Dom has not had a haircut since I met him. He doesn’t know what he wants to that’s for plus, actually more than that five years of hair. And on our big events or whatever, he’s on stage with that. I guess it’s a fro I don’t even know what you call that monstrosity of hair. But Dom everybody wants to know what is it like? And how do you handle being so incredibly good looking?
Dominik Meiu 37:40
Well, Tanner, I figured you’d ask me that. And honestly, it’s wonderful. No, no, I actually just got a haircut not too long ago. It just doesn’t look like it.
Tanner Larsson 37:55
I can’t tell I’m sorry, guys. I have threatened Dom with a haircut. Every time I’ve seen him since I met him. I think even the first day I met him, I’m pretty sure I threatened him with a haircut. It has not worked clearly. It does help that he’s in Colorado, and I’m in Nevada. But still, Dom is probably the only. I mean, 15 to 19-year-old kid I’ve ever seen who can pull off big hair like that. That’s not like your typical Afro or something, you know, crazy. But yeah, he pulls it off, and I’m not the jury’s still out on that little lip. The first thing he’s got going on. But the hair is for sure. One of his I honestly, the team. That’s another thing we should talk about. In the Build Grow Scale framework. And are we have 63 full time, members that build gross scale team at this point that all work on revenue optimization. That’s all we do. Every good idea that anybody has ever had in Build Grow Scale comes from Dom so that no matter what the idea gets shared, and we always say, man, Dom thanks for the idea. So It’s just a company-wide thing that we know that Dom is the gift that’s given all great ideas to the universe. And the reason for that is, I think, Alex or James or one of the other ROs determined that Dom’s unique superpower of knowing everything comes from all the knowledge and brainpower that’s stored in his hair. So every time he gets a haircut, he actually loses some of that wisdom. So he really can’t get a haircut. Otherwise, Build Grow Scale will suffer.
Dominik Meiu 39:32
Right, so I asked, Can you tell me.
Tanner Larsson 39:36
Science guys, can’t compete with science. All right, dude. Well, hey, I appreciate you very much guys at this point. This was a great episode. If you have questions and you’re watching on YouTube, throw a comment below. We answer them. We’ll get new ideas for new podcast topics. If there’s something else you’d like Dom to come back on a later episode and dive in deeper on, go ahead and throw that below. throw an email into support. Let us know to make sure that you are subscribed. This is a dual platform-style podcast right we do a video podcast on YouTube. We also do an audio version on iTunes, Stitcher, wherever you get your podcasts. So if you need to links to be able to subscribe to both of those, and I highly recommend you subscribe to both because sometimes we do video-based episodes where we’re actually sharing our screens or looking at sites. So hearing it on audio may not be quite as powerful as being able to see it. So you may want to be on both. So go to https://buildgrowscale.com/podcast/, https://buildgrowscale.com/podcast/ and you can get links to iTunes or Stitcher, the YouTube channel, whatever and you can subscribe on both. Also, at that link, you’ll find all the podcast episodes that we’ve previously done their show notes, transcripts, all of that is in one place for you right there at https://buildgrowscale.com/podcast/ and again, if you like what you see, leave us a review that helps the podcast grow helps us get feedback and keeps us excited to do more. So with that, Dom thank you very much for being here and everybody. We will see you on the next episode.
Ecommerce Store Audit
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Ecommerce Store Audit
Want us to do an Audit on your e-commerce store and show you how you can make some quick changes that will dramatically increase sales and profits without increasing your traffic?